UK health care

Chat and items of interest about Crete and Greece.
Jeffstclair
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UK health care

Postby Jeffstclair » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:10 pm

A friend of ours is considering moving back to the UK ,closing up her house here and renting something in England. She will need to access medical treatment on the NHS. The NHS website says you have to be refered by your GP and ‘ordinarily resident’ to get access. Has anyone had to do this? and of so what kind of documentation did you have to provide to demonstrate that you were ‘ordinarily resident? ...any tips ?...jeff

KateD
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Re: UK health care

Postby KateD » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:06 pm

Having worked in the NHS for many years, I would say the proof will be will be utility bills in your name, less than 6 months old. Any GP would then register you on their list and she should still have an NHS number (getting one of those is the hard part). However if she needs emergency care then that should be available. She just needs to go into her local GP surgery to discuss it.
I note this was posted early June so I hope this isn't too late
Kate

bobscott
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Re: UK health care

Postby bobscott » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:19 am

The last time I had to see a UK NHS doctor was about 20 years ago. In those days, my NHS number was still my old wartime identity number. When a few years ago it looked as if we may be going back to the UK, I rang our last local surgery, quoted my number and asked if they had a record of the new NHS number. Sure enough, they looked it up, gave it to me and also the new number for my wife. So if we ever do go back, we do at least have NHS numbers which might be useful. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

moggieman
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Re: UK health care

Postby moggieman » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:22 pm

Having moved back, we registered at our local doctors without any problem. All we where asked for was our new address and ni numbers. Job done.

Kilkis
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Re: UK health care

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:47 pm

As far as I can tell, from the experience of two people, there isn't really a problem as long as you make it clear that you have moved back to the UK to live and hence you need to register. I think problems occur if they NHS think that you are still living in Greece and have come back temporarily for elective treatment. That is not an entitlement.

Warwick

peebee
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Re: UK health care

Postby peebee » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:00 pm

Kilkis wrote:I think problems occur if they NHS think that you are still living in Greece and have come back temporarily for elective treatment. That is not an entitlement.

Warwick

If you are a pensioner, and have IKA cover here, you are covered if you have a copy of your S1 form, that was issued in UK when you moved out here.

Jeffstclair
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Re: UK health care

Postby Jeffstclair » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:00 pm

Thanks for all the replies , I hear it can take some time to get signed up with a GP and then another delay before being referred to a hospital. Therefore losing any continuity of treatment .. this is what concerns her ... and facing the risk that treatment might be refused .. Your point Warwick is very relevant to this . peebee Does that rule apply to state pensions only or do private pensions count ? the person in question is not on a state pension..?. thanks all.. I 'm sure she is going to stay here ..jeff..

Kilkis
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Re: UK health care

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:36 pm

Judging by the number of GPs who are retiring early or leaving the country I think it might be difficult for anybody to sign up to a GP's surgery not just returning foreign residents. Did your friend ever sign off from her GP and were her records ever returned to the NHS records department? If not and her records are still with her original GP she might be able to go back there? If she did give up her records but still has her old NHS card she might be able to get treatment for a time at a walk in centre which might cover her till she gets re-registered. I can't guarantee this. My late wife got a consultation, which didn't result in any treatment, without an EHIC card at a walk in centre having told them that we lived permanently in Greece. That was some years ago so things might have tightened up.

An S1 form is now only issued to state pensioners so Peebee's comment would not apply to someone who does not qualify for a state pension. It used to be issued for a limited time, possibly up to a maximum of about 2 years, to some other categories, such as people seeking work abroad or early retirees, but that no longer applies.

I am not sure if Peebee's comment is correct. I was told quite definitely by the NHS that an S1 form does NOT qualify you for treatment in the UK. It only qualifies you for treatment in the country where you are resident and where the local health authority used it to register you on their health system.

If you are resident in Greece, have an IKA health book issued on the basis of an S1 form and are going to the UK, or any other EU country, on holiday you are supposed to get an EHIC card through DWP, not through the normal NHS process. That can prove difficult because DWP believe IKA is supposed to sign and return the second half of the form and IKA believe that they don't. Thus DWP have a record that the S1 form was issued but no record that it has been used to register you in Greece. If you explain the situation to DWP they will try to deal with it but it may take some time. If you work in Greece and have an IKA book based on IKA contributions then you should apply to IKA for an EHIC card.

The EHIC card only entitles you to emergency treatment for conditions that arise while you are on holiday. It does not cover you for elective treatment. There may be grey areas but it shouldn't be used to cover ongoing treatment.

Warwick

peebee
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Re: UK health care

Postby peebee » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:25 pm

In reply to your last post, Warwick:
My wife went to the UK in April this year on her annual visit & had a fall, hitting the side of her face. She went to Moorfields Eye Hospital in London, as her eye was full of blood. She went to the A&E there & was told to go back the next day to the Retina clinic, as there were signs of a detachment. She went back & the clerk spotted that she lived in Greece. She was then told that because she had been outside the UK for over 6 months, she would be billed for the scans etc that she had received in the clinic, but the A&E tests would not be charged for. She was told to get the Greek equivalent of an EHIC card & let them have a copy & they would not bill her.
On returning here, she went to the IKA office in Chania & was told to sort it out with "the pensions people in the UK" She then then got an e-mail from Moorfields which said that they were wrong & it was an S1 form she needed, not a Greek EHIC. After many e mail exchanges with the DWP, she has now been told that she will be issued with another S1 form. The DWP say that this will entitle her to treatment in the UK both for the tests at Moorfields & for any future visits to the UK. Moorfields agree.
When she gets the form, I will post here what it says on the bumph that comes with it, as to what it is actually for. We did not keep copies of our original S1 forms, but just handed them over at the IKA office to get our health books, because that's what they were for, we were told. We shall see.......

Kilkis
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Re: UK health care

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:06 pm

peebee wrote:...She then then got an e-mail from Moorfields which said that they were wrong & it was an S1 form she needed, not a Greek EHIC. ...


In my opinion, and I stress it is only my opinion, Moorfields have got it wrong twice.

Firstly, they were correct to say that they needed an EHIC card BUT they were wrong to say that you should get it in Greece. Up to several years ago, can't remember exactly when, if you had an IKA book through an S1 form then you did indeed apply to IKA for the EHIC card. Then the rules were changed so that if you have an IKA book through an S1 form you have to apply back to the country that issued the S1 form.

You cannot simply use the normal on-line EHIC application process. You have to ask DWP for a special EHIC application form that they send to you in paper form, already partly completed. They will only do this if they have you on their records as being registered with IKA, which typically they won't have because IKA do not believe they are supposed to return the second part of the form. IKA claim they had to do so before the rules changed but, according to them, after the rules changed they don't need to. I would ask DWP for the application form, wait till they tell you you are not registered and then write back explaining that you are piggy in the middle because IKA say they don't need to return the form and would they sort it out with IKA. That should get you the EHIC application form.

Secondly, they were wrong to tell you they needed an S1 form. As far as I know, an S1 form issued by DWP can only be used to register you for health care with the reciprocal health provider in another EU country. I do not believe an S1 form issued in the UK can be used to get treatment in the UK or get reimbursement for treatment in the UK. Details of DWP Healthcare Team. I believe that, in the absence of an EHIC card, you should have phoned this contact, explained the situation and asked for a reference number to give to the hospital providing the treatment so the hospital could bill them directly. That is what I was told to do if I had a health problem when travelling elsewhere in the EU, including the UK, while they sorted out giving me an EHIC. Whether there is some way you can do that after the event I honestly don't know but you could try.

Warwick

filippos
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Re: UK health care

Postby filippos » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:20 pm

peebee wrote:......... She was told to get the Greek equivalent of an EHIC ..........

I wonder ('cos I just don't know) if this is for the first time issue of an EHIC or a renewal. Back in April we noticed that both our EHICs had expired several months earlier. I phoned the DWP, answered a few security questions, gave my NI number and ID numbers on the old card and was told a card would be issued but may take some time as I lived abroad. Passed the phone to 'Er Indoors who answered the same questions with the same result. New cards arrived within seven working days. Expiry is May 2021.

peebee
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Re: UK health care

Postby peebee » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:04 pm

filippos wrote:
peebee wrote:......... She was told to get the Greek equivalent of an EHIC ..........

I wonder ('cos I just don't know) if this is for the first time issue of an EHIC or a renewal.

Our old UK cards expired years ago, never had one issued here.
Meanwhile, IKA are happy they don't have to deal with it, DWP are happy to send out a duplicate S1 form, Moorfields are happy with accepting it, and wifey is happy that she doesn't have to pay.
Will contact DWP and see whether they will send out a form for another EHIC card.

Kilkis
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Re: UK health care

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:10 pm

The change to the rules, making it necessary to apply back to the UK for an EHIC card and not to Greece, dates back at least to March 2013. I am not sure how long before that it changed. Here is a copy of part of the email I wrote to DWP Overseas Healthcare Team:

I now receive health care from Greek Insurance provider EOPPY, formerly known as IKA, on the basis of an S1 form issued by DWP on 16 May 2011. I used this to register with EOPPY in January 2012 when my existing cover expired. In March 2013 I tried to apply for an EHIC card since I intended to travel to other EU countries. In May 2013 I received a reply by letter from your department (scanned copy attached) saying that I had filled in the wrong form. Further I did not qualify for an EHIC card because EOPPY had not returned the necessary documents to your office. I have now spent just over a year trying to find out why EOPPY have not done as you require. I have finally received a response from them saying that your office is incorrect. They claim that under the old E121 procedure it was indeed necessary for them to return the second part of the form BUT under the new S1 procedure they do not do this. I have tried to resolve this problem by phoning your office but simply get passed from one department to another so I hope I can resolve it by email. I would be grateful if you could help me resolve this situation.

This is part of the reply I received:

The Greek authorities should have sent us your S1 with a part B of E121 form attached, but, as you have stated, they have not done this. However, I have contacted them to request confirmation of your registration details, and in the meantime our policy section has informed me that, in this case, I can in fact issue your EHIC application form whilst awaiting official documentation from the Greek Authorities.

This is an extract from a UK Government Web Page. Click on the down arrown next to UK pensioners at the bottom of the explanation:

If you are living in an EEA country or Switzerland and you receive a UK State Pension or long-term Incapacity Benefit, you may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK. You'll need to apply for a certificate of entitlement also known as an S1 form. If you are living in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland then the form is called E121.

You can apply for your form via the International Pension Centre on 0191 218 7777. Once issued, register the S1/E121 form with the relevant authority abroad. Often you need to do this before you can register with a GP surgery or obtain a medical card.


Once you have registered your S1/E121 in the country you are moving to, you will be entitled to apply for and use a UK-issued EHIC to access state-funded necessary medical treatment when you visit other EEA countries."

If you are resident in Greece then "visit other EEA countries" includes visiting the UK.

Warwick

YoMo2
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Re: UK health care

Postby YoMo2 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:12 am

Nice to have to wade through all this ludicrous red tape when you are ill...........

Andrew

bobscott
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Re: UK health care

Postby bobscott » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:20 am

This link may be helpful? It specifically refers to state retirement pensioners from the UK in at least a couple of places.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/expat-health/11571256/British-expats-from-outside-Europe-must-pay-for-NHS-hospital-care.html
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!


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