Electrical Wiring Approval

Chat and items of interest about Crete and Greece.
SatCure
Posts: 1910
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:57 pm
Location: Apokoronas

Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby SatCure » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:37 am

UPDATED 3/2/17

A friend moved here recently and bought an old house (in Apokoronas). It had previously had English owners who lived there for several years. He received a letter from electricity supplier DEH to inform him that they required a plan of the house wiring, without which they would cut off the power.

He employed an engineer to map out the wiring and, on his instructions, took it to the office above an electrical shop on the road from Omalos into Haniá (number 55). They rubber-stamped it then sent him to another office (maybe DEH?) for final approval.

The first office Leoforos Kazanzaki 55, Vamvakopulo 73100 and the second office he can't type as he has it only in Greek & no Greek keyboard but it is the offices of "Thelta epsilon thelta thelta iota epsilon" and is a large office building. The phone is 2821048302

Leaving the first office on your right just continue on down that same road to the, I think it is about the third, turning on the right, just minutes away. Go down that road and the office building is on the left hand side. The room you need is on the first floor, take a ticket etc.

He has no idea why he had to do this, nor why this must be repeated in 2030 !

Warwick, any ideas?
Last edited by SatCure on Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

YoMo2
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:55 am

I think it's standard procedure for any new supply now. EU regs?

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

Kilkis
Posts: 8835
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby Kilkis » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:59 am

If it was a new build it is part of the procedure to finalise the building process. New builds normally have a temporary electricity supply often referred to as "Builder's Electricity". When the building is complete there are a series of procedures to be carried out to ensure that the house is built in accordance with all regulations. Submitting a plan of the house wiring, certified by a qualified electrician, is part of that procedure.

"Builder's Electricity" can only be used for a specified period of time from the date of issuing the building permit. If you exceed that time period without completing all finalising processes then it will be cut off. You can recognise if the supply is "Builder's Electricity" by looking at the number in the second column of the table on the bill where the meter reading is recorded. A normal supply is 11, or 12 for night time saver rate. "Builder's Electricity" is 21 I think. Incidentally it is advisable to get off "Builder's Electricity" as soon as possible because it is charged at a higher rate.

Warwick

mouche
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby mouche » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:42 pm

Kilkis wrote: "Builder's Electricity" is 21 I think. Incidentally it is advisable to get off "Builder's Electricity" as soon as possible because it is charged at a higher rate.

Warwick


True enough but are you aware that as long as you have the socalled Builder's electricity that you dont pay ENFIA? How do I know you say? Beacause we had Builder's electricity for three years and paid no ENFIA during those years! We had everything done by the book and taken care of by our lawyers who probably knows these things. So now you have learned something new for once! :roll: (or probably not)

Kilkis
Posts: 8835
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby Kilkis » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:05 pm

When I had "Builder's Electricity" ENFIA didn't exist, although there was a property tax for more expensive houses which didn't affect me. Back then you didn't pay Council Tax as long as you were on "Builder's Electricity", although, strangely enough, you did pay the TV Licence charge.

Out of curiosity, could I ask when those three years were? The reason I ask is that originally ENFIA didn't apply to properties that weren't complete. Since technically the property is not complete until you go through all the finalisation procedures, including the process with ΔΕΗ, it would make perfect sense that ENFIA would not be charged. I think the law was changed either last year or the year before to charge ENFIA on properties that were not complete. I must confess that I am not certain about this but I seem to recall some Greek friends complaining bitterly because they had to pay the ENFIA on a building that was still a skeleton. I also think there was some discussion in the press about that decision possibly being reversed. Hence I have no idea what the position is now but I would advise anybody in this situation to check with a lawyer if ENFIA applies today to properties that have not been finalised.

Personally I wouldn't stay on "Builders Electricity" to avoid paying ENFIA but that is just my opinion. Everybody has to make their own decisions.

Warwick

Mackie
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:08 pm
Location: Cheshire / Hersonissos

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby Mackie » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:29 pm

I don't think it's only for new connections. The house we have just bought (or about to buy if they get a move on) was not occupied for a few years and power is disconnected. Talking to an Architect over the phone recently, he tells me I may have to provide such certificate and everyone has to if it was not tested within the last 14years (of course you have to prove it).

Cheers

scooby
Posts: 1096
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm
Location: Agia Nr Chania

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby scooby » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:43 pm

mouche wrote:
Kilkis wrote: "Builder's Electricity" is 21 I think. Incidentally it is advisable to get off "Builder's Electricity" as soon as possible because it is charged at a higher rate.

Warwick


True enough but are you aware that as long as you have the socalled Builder's electricity that you dont pay ENFIA? How do I know you say? Beacause we had Builder's electricity for three years and paid no ENFIA during those years! We had everything done by the book and taken care of by our lawyers who probably knows these things. So now you have learned something new for once! :roll: (or probably not)
I have to say that the tone of your posts point to you being not a very nice person, is that why you left Crete as couldn't make any friends, one wonders.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

jackdaw
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:25 am

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby jackdaw » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:25 pm

DEH suddenly decided we needed a new 'plan' on our house, purchased last year, built in 2001. Plan was completed by the electrician who originally wired the house, and did some upgrades when we moved in. Another 150 euro down the swanny. Ah well...

YoMo2
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby YoMo2 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:05 am

You may, repeat, may, save on ENFIA, but when you come to change to normal supply, you may get hit for back council tax.

If I remember rightly, builders supply shows the house as being a notional 10 sq metres. This is what your council tax will be based on. It's done on a sq metre basis, so you are saving money on council tax while on builders supply. I think you are then allowed to extend for a year, but it has to be done officially in order for the 10 sq metre listing to continue to apply.

After three years, or two if you don't extend officially, the council tax is due on the actual size of the h ouse and you will be billed for back taxes whenever you eventually come off builders supply. I know of people who were billed for several thousand euro. It soon mounts up. Obviously, depending on size of house.

You may or may not come out ahead vis a vis ENFIA.

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

Kilkis
Posts: 8835
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby Kilkis » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:56 am

YoMo2 wrote:You may, repeat, may, save on ENFIA, but when you come to change to normal supply, you may get hit for back council tax...


Either that must be a change in the rules from 10 years ago or it depends on the timescale? From moving into the house to changing to normal domestic tariff was only 4 months for me, i.e. two bills. I wasn't charged any back council tax for that period. Up to moving in the developer had paid all the ΔΕΗ bills so I don't know how long altogether there was an electricity supply without council tax being charged but certainly a year.

Warwick

mouche
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby mouche » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:06 pm

Kilkis wrote:
Out of curiosity, could I ask when those three years were? The reason I ask is that originally ENFIA didn't apply to properties that weren't complete.


Buildingpermit from 2008 but he house was not completet before 2012. We bought the house partly built march 2011 and had the developer (seller) complete the house for us. We had Builder's electricity from spring 2011 till summer 0f 2015 when everything was finally sorted out and we got "normal"electricity. We did not pay ENFIA before 2015. The maximum period you an (or could) have Builder's electricity was (is?) four years so we were very much on "overtime" and our lawyer spent some time with DEH to sort things out. We did, howver, pay council tax when we had Builder's electricity. The whole "story" is considerably longer but this is a "short" version with the essenitals relating to you specifi question.

And by the way; contrary to what others claim we have never moved from Crete (nor to Crete).

YoMo2
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby YoMo2 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:12 am

Kilkis wrote:
YoMo2 wrote:You may, repeat, may, save on ENFIA, but when you come to change to normal supply, you may get hit for back council tax...


Either that must be a change in the rules from 10 years ago or it depends on the timescale? From moving into the house to changing to normal domestic tariff was only 4 months for me, i.e. two bills. I wasn't charged any back council tax for that period. Up to moving in the developer had paid all the ΔΕΗ bills so I don't know how long altogether there was an electricity supply without council tax being charged but certainly a year.

Warwick


I've confused you. What I was trying to say is that they don't charge back council tax for the two, (or three), years when you have "offically sanctioned" builder's supply. Only the notional tax calculated on 10 sq metre house size. Although, I think if your engineer puts in the actual proposed floor area of the house, you would pay on that. That can be done, but obviously doesn't happen very often. Similar to burning money.

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

mouche
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby mouche » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:31 am

scooby wrote:
mouche wrote:
Kilkis wrote: "Builder's Electricity" is 21 I think. Incidentally it is advisable to get off "Builder's Electricity" as soon as possible because it is charged at a higher rate.

Warwick


True enough but are you aware that as long as you have the socalled Builder's electricity that you dont pay ENFIA? How do I know you say? Beacause we had Builder's electricity for three years and paid no ENFIA during those years! We had everything done by the book and taken care of by our lawyers who probably knows these things. So now you have learned something new for once! :roll: (or probably not)
I have to say that the tone of your posts point to you being not a very nice person, is that why you left Crete as couldn't make any friends, one wonders.


You have to say? No you don't and nobody asked you to!

Ad hominem!

Jean
Posts: 905
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:39 pm
Location: West Crete
Contact:

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby Jean » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:48 am

You have to say? No you don't and nobody asked you to!

Ad hominem!

Which doesn't change the fact that you generally come across as a not very nice person.

Kilkis
Posts: 8835
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Electrical Wiring Approval

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:51 pm

The whole issue of property tax changed markedly over the period that you describe, Mouche.

It was introduced* as Ε.Ε.Τ.Η.Δ.Ε., levied on the electricity bill, by law 4021/11 in October 2011 so that would be just after you started on "Builder's Electricity". Since it was on the electricity bill and council tax doesn't seem to be charged when you are on this type of supply it wouldn't really surprise me if this tax was not collected either. This tax was ruled to be unconstitutional by the Greek courts and could only be imposed temporarily.

It was replaced by ENFIA in 2014 and I think, but don't know for sure, that at that time it didn't apply to properties that were not complete. I think, but again don't know for sure, that it started to be applied to unfinished properties in 2015. In 2015 the ENFIA bills were not issued until late October by which time you had finalised your property so would be charged it anyway.

If my understanding of how this tax has developed is correct then it is consistent with what you experienced. The Greek government changes its mind so often that I really don't know what the situation is today. It is entirely possible that there is no ENFIA on unfinished buildings, a partial tax on unfinished buildings or a full tax on unfinished buildings, hence my advice to ask someone like a lawyer or accountant.

Warwick


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