Costings

Chat and items of interest about Crete and Greece.
louisejersey
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Jersey/ Neapoli Crete

Costings

Postby louisejersey » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:15 pm

Hi all, any thoughts on whether you think that an electric Halogen heater, or a Calor gas fire would be cheaper to run?
We have a Wood burner, but would like to know which of the above would be more economical to run for short periods, such as not wanting to light the wood burner if we were going out?
Thanks, as always,
Louise

Yin&Yang
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Megala Horafia/Aptera

Re: Costings

Postby Yin&Yang » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:34 pm

I know nothing about Halogen heaters but for two years, before we moved to this house, we topped up the heat by using a gas fuelled fire, i.e. the gas cylinder is fitted to the heater. In the very cold months, and used together with inverter air conditioning, one €40 cylinder would last us for one month. It kicked out a lot of heat. I hope this helps.
Someday is now : )

filippos
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Re: Costings

Postby filippos » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:12 pm

There's one potential problem with gas especially if your house has a tendency to damp, as do so many here. Gas heaters belch quite a lot of moisture into the air which exacerbates any existing damp conditions. Just a thought.

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Costings

Postby Kilkis » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:20 am

I don't know the relative cost of a gas burner and electric heating here but I would agree with Filippos on the tendency of a gas heater to increase damp.

My own experience of halogen heaters is very poor. When working in an unheated screened control room, 2.5 m x 2.5 m x 2 m, in winter in northern Greece a halogen heater was all we had. If you sat as close as you dared your front burned and your back was freezing. If you must use a direct thermal electric heater then I would say a fan heater is much better. We couldn't use one because the fan motor would generate electromagnetic noise.

An inverter air-conditioning unit running in heater mode is far more cost effective than halogen or fan heater. With halogen or fan it consumes 1 kW of electric power to put 1 kW of heat into the room. With an inverter air-conditioning unit 1 kW of electric power would put 3 to 4 kW of heat into the room.

Warwick

Yin&Yang
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Megala Horafia/Aptera

Re: Costings

Postby Yin&Yang » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:25 am

Interesting, I didn't know about the moisture issue when using a gas heater.
Someday is now : )

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Costings

Postby Kilkis » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:05 am

The clue is in the name. Propane gas is a hydrocarbon. Generally for the combustion of hydrocarbons in air the reaction is:
hydrocarbon + oxygen → carbon dioxide + water.

Specifically for complete combustion of Propane in air:

C3H8 + 5O2 → 3CO2 + 4H2O

and for incomplete combustion, i.e. badly adjusted burner producing soot:

C3H8 + 2O2 → 3C + 4H2O.

Either way, for 1 molecule of Propane you get 4 molecules of water. That means each for each kg of Propane you burn you get about 1.6 kg of water. At room temperature 100 % relative humidity corresponds to about 20 g/m3 of water while 50 % relative humidity corresponds to around 10 g/m3. Thus adding 10 g/m3 would take a room from a comfortable 50 % to a condensing 100 %. Burning 1 kg of Propane would do this for a 160 m3 house. Typically in winter in Crete the starting relative humidity would be more than 50 % so you need less Propane to do this. If you don't like theory just ask anybody who has stayed in a caravan with calor gas heating, lighting and cooking. I would suggest coupling the heater with a dehumidifier.

Warwick

Jeffstclair
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Location: The centre of the universe

Re: Costings

Postby Jeffstclair » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:42 am

Yeah , Gas heaters are useful for a bit of quick heat ...but dreadful for dampness.
I had one here before I lived here full time , when I was working on the house in the winter time ... Now we only use wood stoves and an oil filled radiator with a thermostat in the bathroom.. For fast heat the wood stove is the best for us, I keep a good stock of kindling of olive prunings .
In very cold weather we keep a stove running day and night .... some times two ..... :wink:

Yin&Yang
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Megala Horafia/Aptera

Re: Costings

Postby Yin&Yang » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:45 am

The amount of moisture you mention is incredible Warwick! I am glad that we now use a wood burning stove and when really cold, the central heating. Crete is humid enough in the winter months without exacerbating the issue.
Someday is now : )

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Costings

Postby Kilkis » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:31 pm

It's not quite as bad as it sounds. You say that a gas bottle lasted you one month and I would guess that was a 6kg bottle. That means almost 10 kg of water would be fed into the room in one month so about 330 g per day. Enough to make a noticeable difference. Obviously it isn't uniform because the outside temperature varies from day to day. The main problem is really cold days. The colder it is outside the more you use the heater and so the more water you put in on that day. When you turn the heater off at night the temperature falls faster, because it is colder outside, so the relative humidity rises towards saturation quicker. The problem is further exacerbated if you keep all inside doors closed to retain the heat in the sitting room as the water is going into a smaller volume of air.

Warwick

Yin&Yang
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Megala Horafia/Aptera

Re: Costings

Postby Yin&Yang » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:52 pm

Still, I don't like the thought of helping to create humidity in the home in this way. It can't be good for one's health :|
Someday is now : )

louisejersey
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Jersey/ Neapoli Crete

Re: Costings

Postby louisejersey » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:19 pm

Thanks all, I hadn't even considered dampness. Living in an all stone House, I should think this would be a major problem,.
decision made. Thanks again.


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