Politicians

Chat and items of interest about Crete and Greece.
Clio
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Postby Clio » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:54 pm


George
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Postby George » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:11 pm

I would love to say I was appalled by this, but it just seems like another in a long line of banking/political corruption that seems to be never ending.
Coupled with no politicians of any merit, never mind answers, it can be of no surprise that the voters in Greece, Italy and now Germany are turning to extreme parties.

filippos
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Postby filippos » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:22 pm

scooby wrote:Yes it might have been a despicable thing to say, but she was a despicable person, which is worse?
You clearly can't differentiate between a person's policies and personal integrity. Such irrationality undermines the value of your comments.

As others have said, you may not have liked the policies (and there were a fair few I disliked), but people knew what they were and had a choice whether to vote for them or not. How many times was she returned? And she didn't lose at the polls.

George
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Postby George » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:56 pm

We have to lump her in with Blair as sending us to war for no reason whatsoever apart from the fact she was the most unpopular politician ever at the time. Nothing quite like rallying the troops as unleashing the dogs of war because Argentina's junta was deeply unpopular. Previous governments, both labour and tory circumnavigated Argentinian sabre rattling by having a nuclear sub nearby - the very threat being able to cool things down. The tyrant also had this option at her disposal, but it carries no political point scoring whatsoever. Much safer to have a little war no one wants on a distant shore. We were after all fighting for the "British" people on the islands - the same Brits who couldn't fly to Britain without visas as they were in effect "foreigners".
she then went on to de regulate the banks ( look where that has got us) and privatise anything she could - in effect selling the family silver. Add the massive housing fiasco we now find ourselves in I fail to see why this parasite would ever be considered for a state funeral.

filippos
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Postby filippos » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:23 pm

George wrote:she then went on to de regulate the banks ( look where that has got us) ............
The banks weren't out of hand until one G. Brown changed all the supervisory framework, watering down the BoE's authority alongside an inept FSA. (Not that I think much of Mervyn King.)

Whatever description you apply to Thatcher I don't think 'parasite' is accurate.

P.S. The 'family silver' was mostly inefficient, profligate companies costing the taxpayer fortunes - and not small ones, either: rather like today's NHS. Admittedly, some of the privatisations were bungled but that's largely down to civil servants who actually run the country on a day-to-day basis.

Oh, remind me, who sold off the family gold at a knock down price? (And that was actual gold.)

scooby

Postby scooby » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:28 pm

filippos wrote:
scooby wrote:Yes it might have been a despicable thing to say, but she was a despicable person, which is worse?
You clearly can't differentiate between a person's policies and personal integrity. Such irrationality undermines the value of your comments.

As others have said, you may not have liked the policies (and there were a fair few I disliked), but people knew what they were and had a choice whether to vote for them or not. How many times was she returned? And she didn't lose at the polls.
Oh I can clearly differentiate, I meant both her policies and integrity thanks.

George
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Postby George » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:47 pm

I would never describe the gas board or BT as profligate companies. Institutions such as these were owned by the public, the people they serve - not some shareholders. The railways are still in a mess because some people can't see that a public service is not about making profits.
We have imported coal for decades at a cost much higher than subsidising our own people to do the job. When the tyrant closed and flooded the mines we were paying 35p per ton in subsidies to extract it. This was seen as economically unviable, so we imported it from the Germans who were paying £3 per ton at the time. How much did it cost to put 80,000 men on the dole? Then the 30,000 gas workers? How that bitch ever sleeps at night is beyond me.

ScotinCrete
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Postby ScotinCrete » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:14 pm

You obviously didn't work in Post Office Telecomms - i.e. BT.
The 'people ' were paying too much for a poor service where the management was in the main outdated and had no incentive to improve either themselves or the service. Profligacy was endemic!!
A shame that Oftel - and the other Of's - werent used to control public rather than private enterprises to ensure the money invested by the owners was being used to their best advantage.
There were a lot of mistakes made, on both the left and the right, but she was re-elected largely because the union leaders had managed to make themselves even more reviled then her by blackening the ideals of the trade union movement to the extent it has never recovered.
It was an -even more - polarised society then with one side shouting of the politics of greed while the other replied with the politics of envy. Neither side talked of how best to bring the country together and use the best of all policies to benefit everyone rather than the section which constituted their power base.

George
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Postby George » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:43 pm

I did work with a nationalised industry until made redundant; not BT though. I agree that policies were more polar, but isn't that better than the middle ground spineless morons we have in unlimited soundbites today?If you went to listen to Mick McGahey, you listened to a man with passion and ideals for a better future. You could understand instantly and either agree or ignore him as you saw fit.
If it is a matter of coming together then why don't we follow the example of a nation who rates constantly near the top for both gdp and gnp per capita? This is a nation that famously held a referendum on working hours and voted by a vast majority not to do less.
Sweden is of course socialist, and has been for many years. We have a good working example of how coalition government can be, practically at our doorstep and never give it a second thought. The yanks are even having a look at how they turned round their banking system when it collapsed in the nineties. Maybe we could all learn something.....

ScotinCrete
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Postby ScotinCrete » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:47 am

Mick would have condemned me as a class traitor eventually :) - though I did spend time around a fire on the picket line when I was younger.
Agree totally that if we would all take the best from what's working then we might have a chance going forward.
Without revering or reviling then, in post war politics Attlee and Thatcher had ideas and made an impact, as you say the rest were and are populists who tinker around the edges.

fuzer
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Postby fuzer » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:11 am

I was a Trade Union Secretary and member of the Executive for some years. I have been on Picket Lines and taken the flack on behalf of the members who elected me. But it is not the role of Unions to overthrow a properly elected Government.
Thatcher set out her manifesto and the people voted. It is not the job of Arthur Scargill to feel he represents me by setting his prime objective to overthrow the Prime Minister.
I hated Thatcher but she was elected to power i did not vote for Scargill.
Even when the concrete block was dropped on the innocent taxi Driver Scargill could not apologise or admit it was an act too far.
Some things are indefensible such as the days when a factory worker could not tighten a screw - the electrician had to be called in - thus the machines were switched off. If you spoke out against this behaviour you were in a minority but sometimes the majority are like sheep and not always right by virtue of their number.
ALWAYS FINISH WHAT YOU STAR

bobscott
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Postby bobscott » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:33 am

filippos wrote:[How many times was she returned? And she didn't lose at the polls.


No, just stabbed in the back by her own lot. Which is worse?
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

filippos
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Postby filippos » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:03 am

What would you expect from a bunch of ambitious, conniving politicians?

filippos
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Postby filippos » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:24 am

fuzer wrote:....... the days when a factory worker could not tighten a screw - the electrician had to be called in - thus the machines were switched off.
I worked in one of the worst industries for restrictive practices - the print. I recall an occasion when a small group of us visited a national newspaper as part of a training course for a blockmaking company.

At one point our management guide stopped us and, forcefully but quietly, said, "Print room next. For God's sake don't one of you step on, let alone over, any of the lines on the floor until invited or they'll stop the f-----g presses."

It didn't take long to discover that compositors were even worse than machine minders.

George
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Postby George » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:40 pm

I work in 24hr recovery/roadside repair industry. I was sent from Edinburgh to Berwick upon Tweed to change a light bulb in an ambulance. The crew had the tools and the bulb in hand but are forbidden by contract to even attempt a repair. A famous national delivery company carries no spare wheels in their vans. If they get a puncture, the vehicle has to be recovered. They remove the spare wheels so employees cannot injure themselves by changing a wheel. You couldn't make it up, and there isn't any union involvement. What nanny state?


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