Vrisses incident

Chat and items of interest about Crete and Greece.
FlatEric
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Vrisses incident

Postby FlatEric » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:05 am

I saw an incident yesterday in Vrisses the like of which I haven't seen here before and hope I don't see again.
In short, a lad, probably in his early teens, called another boy over in an amiable fashion and then punched him square in the face probably breaking his nose. Lots of blood etc. it took him several minutes to recover.
My question is what would a Greek person who didn't know either of the boys do or be expected to do in such circumstances? I've heard several stories about the complexities of family disagreements so other than comforting the victim and threatening to get the police there seemed little to do. There was another ex-pat there who actually went to the police staion just down the road. Good on you mate.

Stuart.

moggieman
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby moggieman » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:57 pm

There was another ex-pat there who actually went to the police station just down the road. Good on you mate.







SO WHY DIDNT YOU DO SOMETHING ???????????????

FlatEric
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby FlatEric » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:52 pm

If you read the original post you NUMPTY you'll realise that the story is 'in short' as stated and not the full account.
Three lads who'd scarpered to round up, a victim, various passers by to explain what had happened, talking to said ex-pat who agreed to go to the police, my new landlady was with me who had to get to Vamos, etc......

In 'short' again, Yes I (we) did do something other than put sanctimonious posts on this forum.

The question is a cultural one but perhaps too complex for you. How would a Greek person handle it? Go to police, go to parents........sorry but I can't make it more simple.

Stuart

moggieman
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby moggieman » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:53 pm

As a NUMPTY far too complex for me....

Clio
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby Clio » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:24 pm

Stuart, you asked a serious and subtle question which deserves a thoughtful response.

You implied very honestly that, apart from being shocked and distressed as anyone would be, you felt out of your cultural depth. I wish that more expats would have that sensitivity to cultural differences which sometimes amount to a gulf.

A Greek’s response? I think that would vary depending on age, gender, whether they were local and knew any of the participants I may be wrong but I think it unlikely that a Greek would head off to the police station in those circumstances.

You’re not Greek, and you can’t and perhaps shouldn’t respond as a Greek would. But as to what a decent foreign citizen should do? Probably err on the conservative side. Respond to the human impulse to take care of the victim, ask if he wants a lift to health centre, home or police station – where it’s down to him to report the incident if he wishes, not you – and leave it at that. If the assailant were still on the scene and there was a stand-off, I think I’d probably put out a restraining hand, and say quietly: ok lad, that’s enough. You’ve made your point.

But then I’ve lived here a long time,I speak the language, I’m female (non-threatening) and ancient (accorded some respect). I also know quite a lot about macho Greek concepts like φιλότιμο, εγωισμός, ντροπί, …enough anyway to realize how little I know, and how probably, ultimately unknowable is the Cretan male psyche to those of us raised in a different culture. So I would stand well clear of any further involvement.

It sounds as if you did everything you could in difficult circumstances, and μπράβο σου for trying to learn from the experience.

Kilkis
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby Kilkis » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:24 pm

I've never been involved in a situation like this either in Greece or anywhere else. I can't think of any reason, however, why a Greek would react that much differently from a national of any other country.

If either of the people involved in the incident were known to them then they would probably try and intervene on the side of whoever they were closest to, e.g. help the person bleeding or pull away the person doing the attacking so he didn't get into more trouble. Possibly join in the attack.

If they were strangers it would probably depend on how many other people were around. Some people would ignore the incident and walk away. Some would try to help the person who was attacked. Some might try to restrain the person doing the attacking. Some might be prepared to act as witnesses and give statements. Some will say they saw nothing. There is quite a lot of research showing that the bigger the crowd the more likely they are to do nothing. Crowds have a strong inhibiting influence on taking action because of fear of appearing foolish.

Whatever they did I would expect it to be done with more shouting, waving of arms and arguing with other bystanders than in more northern countries.

Warwick

tomcat1
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby tomcat1 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:07 pm

Asked my greek partner and his reply was "tρεχει και κρυβει", his second answer was that it would be normal to stop the fight/altercation if possible

Kilkis
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby Kilkis » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:55 am

Interesting reply, Tomcat1. I once discussed with a Greek colleague the way the police behave in the UK. I told him that I had a friend who was a night security guard at a large Mercedes dealership north of London that was occasionally targeted by car thieves. When he rang the police he always reported that the offenders were still on the premises, even if they weren't, because then they would attend quite rapidly. If he said the offenders had gone the police would turn up a few days later. He replied that in Greece it would be the exact opposite. If the police thought the offenders were still there then they wouldn't come. A few other Greek colleagues who were sat around listening to the conversation all agreed with his viewpoint.

Warwick

FlatEric
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby FlatEric » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:56 am

Hi Warwick. My thoughts and question were in part due to the post you put up a while ago regarding the role of village elders arbitrating in inter-family issues. I haven't been here long enough to understand the Cretan psyche regarding what's viewed as help, interference or an insult to the individual/family. We live and learn but must tread carefully I think.

In the UK the PC culture seems to have pushed things too far to the extent that anyone intervening by physical contact with a 'child' risks being accused of assault themselves. Maybe I'm too easily swayed by the media but it seems people are less likely to step in and help over there now. Hence the question regarding the situation here.

As a child I was on the receiving end of a few thick ears. I wouldn't say I'm a better person for it but probably no worse.

Stuart

Kilkis
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby Kilkis » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:40 am

I think Clio's post is probably quite accurate. Depending on the cause of the altercation, the concepts she mentions, φιλότιμο, εγωισμός, ντροπί, might get you into trouble if you started to involve yourself after the event. I wouldn't imagine simply trying to help the person attacked would cause you any problems. I am sure there are plenty of fights between testosterone fuelled youths that don't result from or result in any "vendetta" type activity. Obviously I could be wrong. As I said I have never had to make that decision but I don't think thoughts of "vendetta" would stop me trying to help.

Warwick

Plodder
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby Plodder » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:36 pm

Pretty sound advice all round.

I think the basic advice is, assist the injured lad where possible, even if it means taking him home to safety, but stay out of the dispute. These things can be very deep. If you take a person's side in the dispute, especially in a small town, you could make enemies of people you have never met yet.

Chris

Loretta9

Re: Vrisses incident

Postby Loretta9 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:56 pm

My car was broken into with the fuel pipe slashed. I went to the local station, in North East Crete, after sitting there for 20 minutes watching 5 officers sitting doing nothing. I stated what happened only to be told > "there is nothing we can do, what do you want us to do" ??
It sticks in your craw when you see them the next day dishing out tickets to tourists and natives for speeding and not wearing seat belts. They lost any respect I had.

Loretta9

Re: Vrisses incident

Postby Loretta9 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:52 am

Good Luck SYRIZA. You can not negotiate from a base of weakness holding out your hands for the crumbs that fall from the table.
But if you win and dont stop corruption by the rich and powerful you will be the same as the two faced shower of shyte that preceded you.

Hudson
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby Hudson » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:49 pm

Loretta9 wrote:"there is nothing we can do, what do you want us to do" .


What did you expect them to do? Other than making some sympathetic noises I can't see that there would be anything for them to follow up on.

YoMo2
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Re: Vrisses incident

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:22 pm

Loretta9 wrote:Good Luck SYRIZA. You can not negotiate from a base of weakness holding out your hands for the crumbs that fall from the table.
But if you win and dont stop corruption by the rich and powerful you will be the same as the two faced shower of shyte that preceded you.


Not entirely sure what this has to do with the Vrisses incident.

Andrew


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