Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

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SatCure
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Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby SatCure » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:24 pm

I posted my "out" vote this morning. The envelope stated "no stamp required" but I sent it "Express", anyway. I wonder how many expats, having experienced first-hand the treatment that Greece has received by the EU, will be voting to stay in? (That's a rhetorical question.)
I can understand why - they are concerned about how an "out" vote might affect their pension, medical insurance, right to stay here, value of the pound, etc.
However, I'm prepared to make those sacrifices for the greater good. Or at least some small hope of greater good!

I've ignored all of the Economic arguments (from both sides) and simply relied on my intuition.

Istronian
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Re: Too good to be true?

Postby Istronian » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:22 pm

SatCure wrote: However, I'm prepared to make those sacrifices for the greater good. Or at least some small hope of greater good!


Good, that makes at least two of us!

SatCure wrote: I've ignored all of the Economic arguments (from both sides) and simply relied on my intuition.


It is sad that the economy dominates because it is about much more than that. To me it is about the right to self determination, democracy and the freedom to make our own rules. Does everyone forget that millions died in two world wars so that Britain was not ruled from Europe? These wars were an economic disaster, surrender would have been far more beneficial to the economy and is what I fear our current government would have done!

If the vote is to stay then most of the MP’s should lose their jobs!

If we are governed by Brussels we don’t need a House of Commons any more. We only need to hold elections for Euro MP’s and they could elect their own Commissioners etc from their ranks.

Ian

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Re: Too good to be true?

Postby filippos » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:53 am

I'm voting "Leave".
I think it's inconceivable that that any EU country would demand that UK expatriates leave their country of residence because we make a significant contribution to the economy of the countries in which we live.

Even those of us who remain UK taxpayers pay property taxes, VAT on anything we buy, and spend money in Greece sourced from outside Greece. Just about everything I spend here benefits the Greek economy.

Negatives: I could forfeit increases in annual increases in UK state pensions. Big deal: historically, missing the annual increase of UK State Pension would cost me about one capuccino per week. I might lose the benefit of IKA: OK, I'm fortunate that, maybe, I can afford private medical insurance or the cost of private treatment but I'm prepared to take the risk that it turns out to be unaffordable.

Inevitably there will be a hiatus if the UK leaves the EU (and, maybe, a bigger one if it stays) but I believe that although things might be difficult for two or three years the UK will survive and, subsequently, prosper.

It will be good to hold our MPs to account directly for their actions.
Last edited by filippos on Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Loretta9

Re: Too good to be true?

Postby Loretta9 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:09 am

Excellent point Ian, re getting rid of House of Commons. We don't need it as members of EU. You vote for a UK MP and get Schultz and his mafia. They swap places a few years later, assisted by our SACKED two-faced careerists - Neil Kinnock - Mandelson. et al.
Immigration - "open borders" - is a deliberate policy for cheap labour and weakened trade unions.. it is obvious. Neoliberalism has been dominating, pushing its agenda towards a total breakdown of public institutions by corporate private dominance. The result is a profit only system of greed with social well-being on the back burner. Turn on the TV, all you see is Police in Black military style garb spraying and pushing ordinary people protesting. Whatever the detail the one main factor is - Politicians who do not listen and do not want people interfering with their agenda through that small process called - democracy. I don't care about my pension... I can not lie to myself by voting "remain". That said my gut feeling is that the result will be rigged - Al Gore/Bush mark 2. There is too much money involved passing from powerhouse to powerhouse - TROIKA. Trillions of Euro.
They will not take allow an "out" result. Which is why "weaker" countries - Ireland - Greece are forced to vote twice. UK people will not allow a second vote so the first vote will be "remain" no matter how many people vote "out".

Ray
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Re: Too good to be true?

Postby Ray » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:26 am

I will also vote to leave and so will my wife. The reason is simple. We are British and want to remain what we are. If that is lost then all is lost.

Ray

Tim
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Re: Too good to be true?

Postby Tim » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:50 pm

We are British and want to remain what we are. If that is lost then all is lost.


Well said, Ray. In a nutshell.

Tim

mouche
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Re: Too good to be true?

Postby mouche » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:00 pm

We are British but just don't want to live in Britain?

Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from other topic

Postby Loretta9 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:09 am

If Golden Dawn were to gain power of Greece I for one would never visit Greece again. To me that is common sense.. as we can not predict the future it is also common sense to remain interested in ones home country even participation in political decisions when possible. I am voting "OUT" and it is not this EU campaign that has formed my views. I know a political cabal when I see one. The political elite are trying their best to control our access to information via the internet, we can find out the truth behind the rhetoric and bullshit. Here we have this powerhouse of committees with their own Presidents... I have never had any say on their formation. They sit in their grey suits and white, pasty Buster Keaton faces looking forward to their Lottery Win level Pensions and at the same time dish out austerity, slashing the pensions of the greek people in what can only be a punishment .... obey or else approach. Get rid of the lot of them.

bobscott
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from other topic

Postby bobscott » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:38 am

Where have the first lot of posts gone - would like to answer an earlier point. bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Carolina
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from other topic

Postby Carolina » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:37 am

Too Good to be True: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10013

I've renamed the title of this thread to make this clearer. Thanks.

Istronian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Istronian » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:38 am

"Pro-Remain MPs are considering using their Commons majority to keep Britain inside the EU single market if there is a vote for Brexit, the BBC has learned."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu- ... m-36457120

So much for democracy and referendums!

.........but would they dare?

Ian

Brian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Brian » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:37 pm

On this occasion Satcure your' intuition has let you down big-time.
How can anyone advocate leaving a trading block of 28 countries and then turn around to try to negotiate a favourable deal with the remaining 27 countries after voluntarily voting to leave this block in the first place. This is pure nonsense. How can anyone advocate leaving when no one has a clue as to what will happen in the event of exit. The only thing at issue is the degree of damage caused to the British economy.
People keep talking about taking back our sovereignty - what they really mean is 'lets return to the good old days' when Britain was a strong player on the world stage. Well my friends it ain't going to happen. Britain needs to be a member of a strong economic block. It is an open economy and without this bloc it will stagnate and eventually have to ask for readmission to this huge economic block.
The main plank in the Brixit argument is the migrant issue, so if we leave we will have to construct fairly solid border controls. The only land border we will have with the EU, if we leave, will be the border in Ireland. It does not take genius to guess what will happen if free movement across this border is denied citizens of Ireland. Some might say this is alarmist talk but I say watch this space.
It is said if Brixit happens then the SNP will call for a further referendum on Independence with the strong likelihood of a vote, this time, being in favour of independence an ipso facto applying for membership of the EU. Is this what the Bexit side call winning back our sovereignty? If Scotland decide on Independence where then for Northern Ireland again I see storm clouds gathering, and yet the Brixit side call this taking back our 'sovereignty'
Some, no doubt, will call this scaremongering, but if pointing out some of the likely scenarios that will take place should Brixit occur so be it. the truth is seldom easy to swallow.
In conclusion I hesitate to use the word Lemming but it seems to be fairly appropriate word when describing someone who wishes to jump across a wall but has no clue as to what lies on the other side. I always was told we the British public were canny, stoic, pragmatic people but listening to the Brexit side I am beginning to have my doubts......... more to follow
Lorretta, Istronian please note.

SatCure
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby SatCure » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:03 pm

Brian wrote:On this occasion Satcure your' intuition has let you down big-time.

We'll see. In any case, I like excitement and uncertainty. I prefer it to the certainty of what will happen if Britain remains in the EU.

(Putting an apostrophe after "your" doesn't lend credibility to your writing.)

Istronian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Istronian » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:15 pm

Brian wrote: In conclusion I hesitate to use the word Lemming but it seems to be fairly appropriate word when describing someone who wishes to jump across a wall but has no clue as to what lies on the other side. I always was told we the British public were canny, stoic, pragmatic people but listening to the Brexit side I am beginning to have my doubts......... more to follow


I was prepared to consider and respond reasonably to your post until you started the insults.

Brian wrote:While not a British citizen, I am a citizen of another country of the EU. A Brexit would affect my country profoundly.


Says it all really. The UK referendum is nothing to do with you but you want to influence the result for you own self interest.

Ian

Brian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Brian » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:51 pm

Ok Guys, you can throw your toys out of the pram, but no one has giving the slightest indication of what lies on the other side of the wall - the reason is because they don't know! I'm sorry if anyone is insulted by my remarks but it's not the time for pussyfooting around, this vote has huge implications for future generations of the British public.
Also I believe when you start pointing out slight grammatical mistakes you are losing the argument :wink:
I see George Osborne has said exactly what i have stated on his visit to the North of Ireland today.
Finnally, we all are members of the EU so it's a bit rich to suggest that another member cannot comment of the implication of a Brexit and the knock on effects of a negative vote.
Apologises in advance for any grammatical errors detected.


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