Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

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SatCure
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby SatCure » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:05 pm

Look at it this way: we are on a plank and the pirate has a sword at our backs. We know what happens if we don't jump but we might just be able to swim ashore. I'm for swimming.

And you are saying "whoah! If you swim ashore, the pirate will turn on us!"

Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Loretta9 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:35 pm

Brian ... why do you assume myself and others are not aware of all the issues? Do you think the EU - EC Commission suddenly became non-democratic from the day Cameron announced a referendum date? You tell us when you voted "in" to this Political federal Union of Nation states?

Brian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Brian » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:06 pm

Lorreta
Either you have wine on board or I have I have't a clue what your on about.

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:53 pm

I am with Brian on this issue, the bickering reminds me of the so called right honourables in the house, I know what I have got now and do not want a leap into the unknown, possibly losing all we came here for and paid into all our working lives back in the UK, the little England mentality belongs in the past, previous governments have thrown out every asset we ever had in the GB days of old, and it is no good taking sides both Labour and Tories have brought it about, making a total hash of every opportunity to make Britain great again, selling off all we owned in the name of short term gain, Satcure may be able to afford private health but I certainly cannot, I live in the real world not the Alice in Wonderland maybe fairytale world............
Dave H

audacity
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby audacity » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:30 pm

Im really quite suprised that any Brit living in Crete would consider voting out,
The way I see it both the Conservative goverment and the EU are corrupt and unfair, BUT, I believe in staying together in the EU and trying to make voices heard if we think something is wrong or unfair.
My biggest worry is that we Brits will be left alone with our Conservative goverment - who will be probably be led by Boris Johnson in light of a Brexit.
This scares me more than 28 leaders having to agree.
Nobody in the UK has come up with what would happen - I understand cheap EU flights are to go up in the event of Brexit too.
Our biggest threat is TTip - France has demonstrated against it and put it on the back foot followed by a few other EU countries who are forcing it to lose its grip - the Conservative Goverment is all for it. The EU leadership has to listen to the people - who on mass in the EU are able to voice louder than just us on our own - this is an example of sticking together vs going alone.
There are good rules and bad rules from the EU, but its harder to get everyone to agree than if it were just the Conservatives, I like the idea of the protection that it adds against really awful rules such as cutting workers holidays, and I know the current goverment doesnt believe in green issues or animal rights particularly!
The EU do.

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:46 pm

Well said audacity :) :)
Dave H

Istronian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Istronian » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:21 pm

audacity wrote: Im really quite suprised that any Brit living in Crete would consider voting out,


After the way the EU has treated Greece I’m surprised that anyone here would vote to stay in!

audacity wrote:The way I see it both the Conservative goverment and the EU are corrupt and unfair, BUT, I believe in staying together in the EU and trying to make voices heard if we think something is wrong or unfair.


Cameron tried to make his voice heard wanting reforms but got nowhere with his renegotiation. This leads to the conclusion that sadly the EU is un-reformable.

audacity wrote:My biggest worry is that we Brits will be left alone with our Conservative goverment - who will be probably be led by Boris Johnson in light of a Brexit. This scares me more than 28 leaders having to agree.


You can vote to get rid of the UK government if you don’t like it, something you cannot do with the EU.

audacity wrote:Nobody in the UK has come up with what would happen


Nobody knows what plans the EU have for the future. Have they ever published a manifesto of what they will do? Answer: No, because they are effectively a dictatorship and can do almost anything, including making it an offence to criticise them!

audacity wrote: I understand cheap EU flights are to go up in the event of Brexit too.


Are you seriously saying that you would sell your right to self government for a tenner off a plane ticket?

Ian

audacity
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby audacity » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:06 pm

I think the EU are treating Greece abysmally, disgracefully, we need to stay in it for unity reasons, the EU is reformable, its up to people like you and me to say 'We dont like this" people power is massive. There are many groups forming for change - Diem25, the Movement, and many more, we cant give up hope on being part of a Union with Europe, I dont like the rulership of the EU any more than the next person, but the alternative is being left with Boris!
Cameron has voiced wanting to change it, so have other leaders, the want is there, it doesnt happen overnight. Everything is reformable if people dont accept whats happening - the kids growing up now are painfully aware of littering, dog poo on pavements, things that cause enviromental damage, things are changing, people are growing more conscientious about all sorts of things, there is hope, leaving would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Our young people want to be a part of a united Europe,

You can vote the UK government out, its true, but you cant vote out the House of Lords, and even more unfortunately a new government would be voted in instead!

Nobody knows what plans the EU have for the future, there are lots of ideas, neither the leave side or the remain side know what could happen, some also depends on the reaction we would get by leaving, visas are one of the discussed possibilities, that would be a shame. Freedom of movement is amazing - being able to live and work freely in any of 27 different countries.

Self government is a thing of fantasy for any citizen,

The only people who could be looking forward to that possibility are
Cameron and Boris, doubt they have your best interests at heart!

audacity
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby audacity » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:35 pm

If we leave we will probably pair up with America instead.
Any sovereignty we are left with will be sold to the corporations and is already being eroded anyway!

Ann McCallum
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Ann McCallum » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:07 pm

hello everyone,

I am enjoying reading all the comments/debate on the BREXIT. I am not a Brit, nor am I a European citizen, I am Canadian. However, I do find it all very interesting and am following closing. maybe not understanding it all...lol...but following as best I can.

I have a question... I have read that the problem with the EU is that it has a monetary policy but no fiscal policy (as we do in Canada) and that that is one of the reasons it is 'broken' and will never work if this is not addressed. I don't hear anything about this even being discussed by the EU. I also read that this broken piece of the EU was known from the very start but it was just ignored while things were going well. I also read, the credit crisis in 2007 proved that without a fiscal policy it cant function.

so my question is... if this is true and it has been brought forth by the so-called 'experts', why do these same 'experts' encourage Britain to stay in the EU? if it is indeed broken and can never function properly unless big changes are made that no one seems to want to make, why would any country want to stay?

audacity
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby audacity » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:07 pm

Interesting question - Ill do some research!

Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Loretta9 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:15 pm

Brian .... Errrr .... "Lemmings ........" directed at those wanting to vote "out". Clearly the Lemming as an illustration of behaviour is indicative of blindly following .... I think that should help clear things up for you. Enjoy your wine.

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:19 pm

Hang on in there Brian and audacity,the others are getting desperate becoming more disarranged leaving reality behind, politics personified............
Dave H

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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby nigeljackson5 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:55 pm

How glad I am that the "silent majority" are now putting their heads up above the parapet, so it is time I made a contribution
I totally agree with everything said by Audacity, Moved to Crete and Brian
I try to deal in fact so will start off with this one
There is no such thing as a pure English race, and we are more European than any nation in Europe. Evidence...tribes who settled here,,,Celts (origin middle Europe)., Romans (Italy & provinces), Angles Saxons & Jutes(Northern Germany & Holland), Vikings(Danish & Norwegian), Normans (French). That's not to forget all the Irish, Welsh & Scots who have settled here
Whilst I agree that the UK would survive a Brexit, i do not think we can thrive. We are a great nation, but now only a small fish that punches well above our weight. Evidence..We have Aircraft Carriers, that will not be able to launch planes, at least for the next 5 years. We also are heading towards the smallest peacetime army we have had since WW2
Like all great empires, and look how much it has cost us since, and I mean Greece, Rome, Ottoman etc etc, our time has been and gone. We need Europe just as much as they need us
If you think that the EU would willingly grant us free unfettered access to the Single market, without tariffs, then I am afraid you are living in cloud cuckoo land. The EU cannot afford to, or the whole project collapses
As to cheap shots about grammar & punctuation, this does nothing to add to the debate

Brian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Brian » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:44 am

The following was penned before the latest scary financial news was released tonight - 65 billion pounds has been moved out of UK in the past two months and this two weeks before the vote. The most mind-bending aspect of this referendum is, for some ex-pats on this forum anyway, is their blind rush to vote exit even though all indicators suggest that the pound will weaken considerably, thus devaluing their British pension and hence increasing the cost of living for many struggling ex-pats.
---------------------------------------------------------

Again apologises to Satcure. I do understand every blog/forum needs a grammar sleuth, not a pleasant or popular job but a necessary one.

It's a given that the Square Mile is the main hub of European financial markets. It is unlikely that this will remain so if Brexits have their way. It is beyond (apologises to Satcure ) oxymoronic to suggest that the main European financial institutions will not be compelled to relocate to another European Capital giving that Britain has removed itself from the EU. This, of course will result in job losses, how many nobody can know, but it is not, I suggest, scaremongering to suggest the numbers will be in the thousands rather than the hundreds. Like wise the Multi National companies located in Britain because of her access to the Single Market and her membership of the EU will relocate. post haste. to other members of the single market so as to continue availing of the benefits and conditions that being a member of the single market entails. Again I hazard a guess here that the job losses will be in their thousands rather than the hundreds.
When we come to farming the situation is even gloomier. Again by exiting the single market we are condemning many farmers to ruination.
There will be many for sale signs on British country roads if Brexit wins. The British farmer has a huge and profitable outlet for their produce on their doorstep right now, but the Brexit side want to leave so that the farming sector can open alternative lucrative markets around the world - why this was not done before Britain joined the EEC is a mystery. Of course there are alternative markets begging the British farmer to send their produce to them! The main one of course is America - but wait, America, at the moment, do not buy a single pound of beef or a single pound of lamb from the British farmer. Again it is scaremongering to mention this and besides, the Brexit camp have an inkling the Americans will change their mind the day Britain exits EuropeOf course we could turn to Russia, they are crying out for supplies so the Brexit side are right after-all! we have options.




Probably the greatest war leader Britain ever produced, Winston Churchill, when ask about membership of a European Union said this would be a good and smart thing to consider - but what would he know, Moseley, sorry, Farage has said we must leave the EU he couldn't be wrong could he?


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