Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

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Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Loretta9 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:59 am

Churchill .. "Greatest war leader Britain ever produced" .... not in my book. !!

Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Loretta9 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:11 am

NigelJackson5 ..... You want facts. Here is a clear and easy to validate FACT > Our PM Cameron, is an outright LIAR. He continued to spout his lies on the Farage/Cameron debate on ITV last night. He did NOT get anything from his, so-called, Brussels Package Deal. That is a fact.
You can NOT undo, breach, circumvent EU Treaties and EU law.
What Cameron is spouting as true (in his look at me - I am ambassadorial, stance) is like saying .. "I have now managed to gain a new special deal for UK so that criminals in court no longer have the right to remain silent" ..... he even selects his words so that what he is saying appears to be a gain when in fact..later on when he is challenged, after this election, he can say ... "what I actually said was ..."
I just do not get it that some seemingly intelligent people in the "remain" camp will accept being lied to. I am in the "out" camp and I am very happy to denounce some comments by Boris Johnson. I
If voting "remain" is based on the words of a dishonest Prime Minister then god help Britan. And before you say .."they all lie, dont be so naive" (because that's the usual response). I will not accept outright liars such as Cameron representing me.

nigeljackson5
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby nigeljackson5 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:53 am

So Loretta, you "will not accept downright liars representing you"
In the even of a Brexit it is very likely that Boris Johnson would be elected as leader and Prime Minister until 2020, the date of the next General Election
The same man who was sacked, by the then Leader of the opposition in 2005 for lying about an publicly exposed affair. Michael Howard asked Johnson to resign from his position as vice chairman and shadow arts minister, not because of the affair but because he had publicly lied about it. Johnson refused, DEFENDING HIS RIGHT TO LIE, at which Howard sacked him from those positions.
You couldn't make it up !!

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:08 am

Facts are being used in this debate, so here is another fact, England cannot patrol its sea borders because they have not got enough boats or men, each government has cut back the finances needed to maintain adequate border forces...........
Dave H

nigeljackson5
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby nigeljackson5 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:31 am

Another fact regarding the vote leaves claims, re Turkey being allowed into the EU
Turkey applied to join the EEC (as it then was) on 14th April 1987, yes almost 30 years ago
It's population is approaching 80 million, and it is estimated that only 6 million of those have passports
Negotiations were started on 3 October 2005 and out of 35 Chapters necessary to complete the accession process, 15 have been opened and 1 has been closed.
To claim that they will be joining the EU in the near future is a fantastic claim, that has no basis in fact given what has happened since 2005
Their democratic model, freedom of press, human rights etc, etc, is incompatible with western democracies, and Erdogan appears to be moving them further away from being a secular state
Whilst it pains me to say it, Cameron was probably right to say, that at this rate, they will not be allowed to join the EU until the year 3000, I think i can safely say, though, that it will not happen in my lifetime
That again presumes that countries such as Cyprus, Greece & France, and i do not include the UK in this, do not veto their entry, which is highly likely.
As to the point about our Border Agency. I have two good friends who work for them. Since the Government adopted to go down the "Austerity" route in 2010, they have been, they tell me, under resourced and undermanned, and are literally "chasing their own tails"

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:25 am

Loretta9 wrote:Brian ... why do you assume myself and others are not aware of all the issues? Do you think the EU - EC Commission suddenly became non-democratic from the day Cameron announced a referendum date? You tell us when you voted "in" to this Political federal Union of Nation states?

I must say Lortta9 that you are not aware of all the issues, as this debate continues more true facts appear that a lot of people were not aware of. QED.
Dave H

Istronian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Istronian » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:20 pm

moved 2 crete wrote: I must say Lortta9 that you are not aware of all the issues, as this debate continues more true facts appear that a lot of people were not aware of. QED.


Are you aware of the threat to your pension by voting to remain?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ement-pots

Ian

Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Loretta9 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:49 pm

Well, I surely can NOT argue with the statement .. " you are not aware of al the issues" .. especially those issues nobody is aware of. Thats a master class statement. I certainly am aware and fully grasp the issues. Just because i speak in plain language calling a spade a spade doe not mean I dont know the issues. I believe there is no point in debating most of the issues when my stance for wanting "out" is based on the anti - democratic way the EU works. Not only that but the fact a date is given to vote does not alter in one bit what has already existed for many years.

Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Loretta9 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:53 pm

I challenge any of you "remain" voters to show me the 4,5,6 package deal Cameron claims to have got from Brussels. The fact is he got nothing. I know because I totally grasp the workings of the EU. You will never show me that your head - leader of your campaign to "remain" got any sort of a deal. Yet you are voting "remain" based on what ??/ A LIAR Prime Minister.

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:13 pm

If you read my earlier posts Loretta9 I have spelt out my remain in reasons clearly and solely on the NHS reciprocal agreements that exist as of now if we remain in, I need my IKA for my on going health problems, I could not afford to pay privately for my on going treatment without this agreement, if you are living here full time as we are you are lucky that you do not need the IKA treatment plus prescriptions or maybe you are rich enough to pay the full private treatment as and when you need it, the benefits for my health are here in the climate etc that we enjoy and you do, otherwise why are you here and not back in the UK or do you have a foot in both camps, PLAIN ENGLISH SPOKEN HERE...........
Dave H

Istronian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Istronian » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:43 pm

The declared aim of the EU is full economic and political union, i.e. the creation of a United States of Europe with its own anthem, flag, armed forces, currency, embassies, unified taxation, foreign policy, etc.

Just think what would happen if taxation was the same throughout Europe? Your UK tax free allowance is greater than the average earnings in many of the current, and proposed, members. Do you think this UK current allowance will be universal throughout the zone? If it is many countries citizens will pay no tax at all so others (us) will have to pay more to sustain the revenue flow. Sorry but your tax free income will be lowered to a European average yet, somehow, we are supposed to be better off by staying in?

The remainers also claim we will be more prosperous if we stay in yet we have been members for 40 years and our national debt now runs into trillions and has never been higher. Just how long will this prosperity take to be realised?

I have no problem with a common market but, as I said earlier, this train is going to the wrong destination. Hence I want to get off

This will, probably, be my last post on this as I don’t see a lot of point in debating when there is no chance of changing anyone’s point of view.

Ian

bobscott
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby bobscott » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:21 pm

Istronian wrote:
moved 2 crete wrote: I must say Lortta9 that you are not aware of all the issues, as this debate continues more true facts appear that a lot of people were not aware of. QED.


Are you aware of the threat to your pension by voting to remain?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ement-pots

Ian


Quote from the article you linked: "Brussels wants to take control of the British tax system with a European tax code imposed across the 28 member states."

Good Lord. Brussels wants?? So we are all going to be supine and roll over to agree?? Come off it. The Daily Express? One minute it's pro Labour, the next, Conservative - depending on the owner. A reliable indicator of peddling a consistent line based on sound analysis! Sensationalism? Ah, yes, that's better. Like so many of them. Dream on.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

nigeljackson5
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby nigeljackson5 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:44 pm

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/ ... eferendum/
Respectfully suggest that all Brexiteers read this

nigeljackson5
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby nigeljackson5 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:01 pm

Bobscott, you have to be joking about the Daily Express ever being a labour supporting rag. It supported Moseley, and for a long time Hitler in the 1930's, which says it all !!
Also owned by a tax avoider
Istronian, possibly a good idea that this will be your last post on this issue. I am really sick & tired of the same rantings over Europe, and am sure I am not the only one. Now the "silent majority" have the temerity to speak, you bow out, because you now know that the deceit and untruths of the Vote Leave campaign, cannot be substantiated !

bobscott
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby bobscott » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:32 pm

Daily Express, 2001 Election, Blair. As quoted in the Guardian, June 2001:

"In a front page election leader today the Express calls on its readers to return Tony Blair to power, describing him as the only leader capable of turning the country into a better place.

"We must return Mr Blair with a popular mandate big enough to allow him to bring about the radical reform he has promised in a second term," the paper says.

"Only then can Labour complete the work it began in 1997 to make Britain a truly modern democracy ready for the changes of the 21st century."
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!


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