Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

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Kilkis
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Kilkis » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:51 pm

nigeljackson5 wrote:Bobscott, you have to be joking about the Daily Express ever being a labour supporting rag. It supported Moseley, and for a long time Hitler in the 1930's, which says it all ...


As a point of factual accuracy it was the Daily Mail under Harold Harmsworth, first Viscount Rothermere, that supported Mosley, Mussolini and Hitler, not the Daily Express. He also published the same articles in the Daily Mirror, which he had also owned but sold. His propietorial status regarding the Mirror at the time of the articles is not clear but he certainly still had a strong influence.

Warwick

Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Loretta9 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:53 pm

Nigeljackson 5 : We are being shafted by anti-democratic elite careerists, who have shown that they listen to no one.
Being stabbed in the back as well as the front. But some of us are talking about the size and quality of the knife while others are wanting to be rid of the people doing the stabbing.

PS: Thank God Kilkis is back on the case. Proper reasoned debate is needed.

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:19 pm

Loretta9, i think my debate reasoning is very valid on the health issue that you have not addressed yet, i wonder why..............
Dave H

Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Loretta9 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:53 pm

moved 2 crete> I never discuss my personal situation on the internet, nothing about me or what I do or where I live. Notwithstanding that I can answer your point on NHS. I do not care about me personally.. as I have always maintained, I am opposed to the anti-democratic EU/EC. Please read and try to expand your thinking on my analogy to the knife in the back and front, in a previous post. Did you start to consider the EU situation from the day Cameron announced the referendum date?? I did not, i have always been anti EU, because I knew the EU is anti-democratic and that I have never, ever been asked to vote on membership of a Federal union of national states. Have you ????

Istronian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Istronian » Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:03 am

nigeljackson5 wrote: Istronian, ............... I am really sick & tired of the same rantings over Europe, and am sure I am not the only one.


I quite agree, that is why I am bowing out! Why are you continuing if you are sick and tired?

nigeljackson5 wrote: you bow out, because you now know that the deceit and untruths of the Vote Leave campaign, cannot be substantiated !


I've said why I'm bowing out. This might come as a revelation to you but both sides lie, twist words and distort the truth. As an ex PR man Cameron is fully trained and an expert at it. The others are amateurs. Most of what both sides say cannot be substantiated and is conjecture or opinion at best.

You have your opinion and I respect that and your right to express it, Please afford me the same courtesy.

Ian

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:13 am

Loretta9, you have failed to answer my point, shame on you..........
Dave H

Loretta9

Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Loretta9 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:27 am

M2C ....I think you may have failed to equate my answer with your comment. You have made several points would you like to set out the specific question. I dont wish to disappoint you.

Istronian
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Istronian » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:48 am

moved 2 crete wrote:Loretta9, you have failed to answer my point, shame on you..........


moved 2 crete wrote: I have spelt out my remain in reasons clearly and solely on the NHS reciprocal agreements that exist as of now if we remain in, I need my IKA for my on going health problems, I could not afford to pay privately for my on going treatment without this agreement,


Firstly, The UK has reciprocal healthcare arrangements with many countries, not only those within the EU. There is no certainty that the current arrangements would not continue. It is one of the unknowns and I understand your concern.

Secondly, the Greek IKA system is not as comprehensive as the UK’s. IKA will not pay anything if you need to live in a care home and if this type of care is needed, and you cannot pay, you have no alternative but to return to the UK. You could be in a similar situation. You may not like the situation but I don’t suppose those needing a care home are too keen on it either.

Whatever the referendum result there will be winners and losers.

Ian

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:39 pm

Thank you for your concern Istronian, we were fully aware of the care home situation or lack of it, living as we do with very good Greek/Cretan neighbours who are very caring and we feel that if that situation arises they and family would do the the best they could to help with the care situation, when I had a bad accident with a chain saw My neighbour rushed me to Chania Hospital and they saved my leg they see us most days and ask if we need anything, as for the reciprocal agreement we fully expect if we remain in it will be honoured as is, to answer Loretta9 point about undemocratic, we did not vote for IDS to stop our winter fuel allowance but our representative in parliament did vote for us to lose it,so when it comes to the question who voted us into the EU it must have been the same way our parliament reps must have voted for us to be in, so called democracy at work, but many thanks again for your concern it appears that you are one that does have some concern and think as as we do and have concern for the very large number. of Ex Pats in all the EU countries needing the health care available in the EU countries they have chosen to retire in........ :wink:
Dave H

Kilkis
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Kilkis » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:18 pm

Istronian wrote:...Firstly, The UK has reciprocal healthcare arrangements with many countries, not only those within the EU. There is no certainty that the current arrangements would not continue. It is one of the unknowns and I understand your concern...


Nor is there any certainty that it would continue. Reciprocal healthcare agreements outside the EU are bilateral agreements. The EU agreement is multilateral by virtue of an EU DIretive. The UK would most probably need to negotiate a bilateral agreement with each of the 27 EU member states if it were to leave the EU. That may not be that easy when it is trying to apply different benefit rules to migrants from those that apply to UK citizens.

Warwick

moved 2 crete
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby moved 2 crete » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:46 pm

Warwick has explained the health problem for ex pats living permanently here or any other EU country, in a nut shell, we would be hung out to dry if the leave campaign wins.............
Dave H

SatCure
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby SatCure » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:58 pm

Nobody can predict what will happen if "leave" wins. As just one example, it has been mooted that the Government would refuse to leave and use the vote simply to negotiate better terms. There's an infinite number of possible scenarios. Read the balanced view here:
http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/ ... eferendum/

peebee
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby peebee » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:16 pm

Martin
Exactly, the EU is sh1t scared of the UK leaving, they would jump through hoops to keep the money flowing in.
All this cr@p about once you're out there's no coming back is b0ll0cks - IMO

nigeljackson5
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby nigeljackson5 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:28 pm

So "Istronian", I fully appreciate your comment that you were bowing out, but would have been more sympathetic had you quoted the whole of the sentence attributed. Unfortunately, but by no means surprisingly, this lasted all of 9 hours
I am grateful that Kilkis has now entered the debate again, as a truly neutral, and unbiased person, and appreciate in one of the points I was wrong, something the leave side never do. I still assert however that the Daily Express is a right wing supporting paper
I am quite prepared to be put under scrutiny, and to"fact check" everything I have stated so far
I wonder if the leave side are prepared for the same, because, in my opinion, it is all emotion & verbosity, with little, if no facts, to support the argument in leaving the EU

Kilkis
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Re: Referendum (2) SPLIT from "Too good to be true?" post

Postby Kilkis » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:45 pm

I wouldn't really describe my position as neutral. I would vote remain if I had a vote. While I fully admit that is partly self interest it is not entirely down to that. I recognise much that is wrong with the EU, although some of the rhetoric here simply demonstrates misunderstanding of how the EU operates. Despite its faults, I simply think that as long as it exists we are better off in than out,

Warwick


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