Independence Day

Archive of "Just now in Crete" plus Cretan Adventures.
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Re: Independence Day

Postby filippos » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:23 pm

Kilkis wrote:Also he did not say it would delay it until October. He said he wanted a new leader in place by the party conference. It is a deadline not an objective.

Maybe I've heard Cameron uttering weasel words to often. My, there have been more than enough over the years of his "leadership". (I use " " there as he's demonstrated leadership by focus group.)

Kilkis wrote:They've won the vote on the basis of those claims. They should now deliver on those claims. I can't wait to benefit from the improvement in the UK's economic position. I've already started looking at Ferraris.

I wouldn't start looking too soon. I doubt anyone thinks there's a magic wand solution. It won't be easy and the only forecast I'm prepared to make is that there will be stumbles along the way.

The other thing, of course, is that for many people it's not just, or even, about money. Certainly the economy is important but there are some things that The UK has 650 MPs, each accountable to their constituents who, if they feel their MP is not properly representing a majority of them, can dispense with his services. (And, yes, I appreciate that MPs have other considerations like doing what they believe is right for the nation as a whole, amongst others). I also realise that, in theory at least, the same can be said of MEPs but they are much more remote, are voting with or against other national interests on matters that are generally proposed by representatives of 27 other countries with their own national interests at heart. Proposals are then prepared by Europe's civil servants, put forward as Directives and "gold plated" by their counterparts in the UK.

Those people are all relatively remote from UK voters and pretty much inaccessible. I'd rather have decisions made or at least influenced by an MP in a British parliament: one that I can actually get to meet to express my opinion or give them the opportunity to convince me that what they're proposing or supporting is the right course of action.

Expecting a "Remain" win, on hearing the result, my first feeling was of surprise, closely followed by huge relief.

I'm suffering severe 'Brexit Yap' fatigue so won't be making any further comment unless, of course, the weasel politicians try to undermine the exit process.

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Re: Independence Day

Postby Kilkis » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:33 pm

I've lived through 15 governments and 10 different prime ministers in the UK. Seven governments were Labour and eight were conservative. They spanned eight different constituencies. I've also lived though 10 governments in Greece with 7 different prime ministers. Five were left of centre, three were right of centre and two were technical. They have spanned two different constituencies. I have never approached an MP to assist me in any way so to me it is irrelevant how close or how far they are. I have never known who my MP was nor have I cared.

Only one government has had any real direct impact on my life. I was made redundant under the first Thatcher government of 1979 to 1983 because of funding cuts to Universities. In the end that turned out to be a benefit although it didn't feel like it at the time. I was also nearly arrested for working with lights on under the three day rules imposed by Ted Heath's government of 1970 to 1974 but, since I wasn't, in the end it wasn't really a significant event. Every government that has existed in my life has taken approximately the same amount of money from me in taxation, as a percentage of my income, and spent it on approximately the same things. To me it is irrelevant if the government is in Westminster, Brussels, Moscow or on Mars.


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Re: Independence Day

Postby Ray » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:55 pm

Here is an important article, it may help you all understand what happened . . . and why I voted to leave the EU.

Brexit: a brilliant revolt against the political class.

By Brendan O'Neill

The referendum result exposes the chasm between them and us.

So this is what democracy feels like. This is what a ballot-box revolt looks like. Yesterday the people asserted themselves. They made plain their dislike of the EU. And they did so against virtually the entire establishment. The leaders of capitalism, the vast majority of the political class, experts, academics, world leaders, global institutions, the liberal media and the celebrity set united to warn the little people, to hector and lecture them, about the dangers of rejecting the EU. And yet the little people did it anyway. They said No to the EU, and in the process revolted against a political and media establishment that thinks it knows better than us how Britain should be run. This was an uprising, a polite, quiet one, not only against Brussels but against the political class here at home, against those who rule.

Let us dwell for a moment on the failure of the establishment. It pumped an extraordinary amount of energy, money, time and intellectual resources into the campaign to keep Britain in the EU. It deployed the politics of fear, issuing dire warnings about a post-Brexit recession and a possible surge in racism and violence. It sent experts to explain to our tiny minds all the things that would happen if we made the wrong choice. It rallied big business, corporates, its global partners and allies, all of whom insisted that it is in Britain’s interests, and Europe’s interests, for the EU to stay intact. And yet it didn’t work. Even in the face of these fearful overtures from the powerful, a majority of people rejected the EU. The establishment can no longer connect with significant sections of society. The chasm between the elite and the people just went from huge to possibly unbridgeable.
Read more - Full article at ... 3PNA_l97IU

Last edited by Ray on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Independence Day

Postby Ray » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:27 pm

Here is a video that helps to understand the European Union and why it was so important to leave.


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Re: Independence Day

Postby mouche » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:48 am

peebee wrote:
mouche wrote:
peebee wrote:I think it is a great opportunity for the UK. The one thing I really object to, is the accusation by some people, that 52% of the UK electorate is racist.

I tend to agree with, the figure is more like higher than lower, unfortunately!

The point that I was trying to make, is that some people are implying that everyone who voted leave is a racist.
I am sure there are lots of Asians, blacks (can I say that without facing prosecution?) and people from other minority groups, that had the right to vote on the matter, voted out.

Are you implying that people of all other colors than "pure" white are not racists? If so I think you are very wrong, or rather I know you're wrong!

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