Sorry folks but some people can hack it and some can't, after just 3 months we are back in the UK.
The truth is the dog thing just got too much, since being in Sitia we have witnessed so much, not so much cruelty in the physical sense but cruelty by neglect in many, many ways. H has been reduced to tears on so many occaisions by sights of retched neglected dogs, half starved, without water, chained and lying in their own crap.
As for me, I think it is the hypocritical attitude of the blinkered (I see no cruelty) ex-pats that turns my stomach. How people can just accept situations that they would never tolerate in the UK is beyond me. I don't want to ignore it, I don't want to ever become immune to it and I don't want to stop caring about the suffering of living creatures.
Good luck to everyone who has a dream and a huge thank you to all the nice people we have met, here and on the forum.
Do it and don't ever look back.
Cretan Adventure - The end of the Dream
Cretan Adventure - The end of the Dream
This Cretan Adventure thing is way beyond a joke.
Well Andy I have to say that I am surprised by your situation. Back in the UK everything is fine - or is it?
You came here around three months ago. How much experience did you have of Crete? How much knowledge or understanding of the culture here? You certainly do not pack your bags and go to some island in Greece with no knowledge or background information - or did you?
Your writing was quite entertaining, especially in the Crete Courier which also seems to have taken a dive, but what did you want of the island? What did you seek beyond the UK? Sounds as if it was a dream decision - let's go love, the future is ours. But that is not how you make real life decisions.
Lets look at the dog situation. First of all, all dogs in Crete are outside the house. Some are treated very well, others are treated not so well. That is how life is in the real world. But in the UK dogs are rarely left outside. They are inside to protect the property. But you never see how they are treated do you. Simply because you cannot see. In fact many of them are treated very seriously badly, but you never see that do you? Plus the kind of dogs that they have inside houses in the UK are seriously dangerous. Pit Bull Terriers, Dobermans and worse. Often small children are decimated - murdered by dogs like these. There have been many incidents recently.Plus there are incidents of donkeys and many other animals being abused in the UK. Check out the RSPC.
Plus in the UK there have been many people and children killed by illegal gunshots. There have been many children murdered by hopeless psychopaths. There is racist gun killing everywhere, blacks v asians, asians v british, british v blacks. So welcome home. Don't take your mobile phone out with you, you could be killed for it as have many before you.
I regret that your partner H has had to cry whenever she saw an abused dog, but has she no real life perspective? No vision of the world in which she lives? And how does she think that the UK has any answers?
I am just astonished.
I lost a local friend tonight.
Ray
You came here around three months ago. How much experience did you have of Crete? How much knowledge or understanding of the culture here? You certainly do not pack your bags and go to some island in Greece with no knowledge or background information - or did you?
Your writing was quite entertaining, especially in the Crete Courier which also seems to have taken a dive, but what did you want of the island? What did you seek beyond the UK? Sounds as if it was a dream decision - let's go love, the future is ours. But that is not how you make real life decisions.
Lets look at the dog situation. First of all, all dogs in Crete are outside the house. Some are treated very well, others are treated not so well. That is how life is in the real world. But in the UK dogs are rarely left outside. They are inside to protect the property. But you never see how they are treated do you. Simply because you cannot see. In fact many of them are treated very seriously badly, but you never see that do you? Plus the kind of dogs that they have inside houses in the UK are seriously dangerous. Pit Bull Terriers, Dobermans and worse. Often small children are decimated - murdered by dogs like these. There have been many incidents recently.Plus there are incidents of donkeys and many other animals being abused in the UK. Check out the RSPC.
Plus in the UK there have been many people and children killed by illegal gunshots. There have been many children murdered by hopeless psychopaths. There is racist gun killing everywhere, blacks v asians, asians v british, british v blacks. So welcome home. Don't take your mobile phone out with you, you could be killed for it as have many before you.
I regret that your partner H has had to cry whenever she saw an abused dog, but has she no real life perspective? No vision of the world in which she lives? And how does she think that the UK has any answers?
I am just astonished.
I lost a local friend tonight.
Ray
Back to the UK
Hi Andy and H
I don't often post on the website (I am just quite content to read the posts instead) but tonight I was saddened to read that you and H had returned to the UK and your Cretan dream is no more.
I read your reports regularly (often turning on the pc just to see if you had added another post) and was keen to see how you were getting along. It was certainly entertaining and I missed your posts once you arrived in Crete. I had thought perhaps our paths would cross once we eventually moved to Crete and I would get to hear more of your adventures and I certainly felt that we couldn't help but like you.
I have concerns about how well I will cope with the Cretan attitude to animals and I hope that I never become complacent about it. My cats are my babies and even my family and friends here in the UK think I go over the top with the care I lavish on them. In fact my mum said recently that if a cat arrived on my doorstop shortly after she passed away, it will be her coming back to live a pampered life as one of my pets.
I wish you and H all the best for the future and hope that we can look forward to the occasional post hearing how you are settling back in the UK.
I don't often post on the website (I am just quite content to read the posts instead) but tonight I was saddened to read that you and H had returned to the UK and your Cretan dream is no more.
I read your reports regularly (often turning on the pc just to see if you had added another post) and was keen to see how you were getting along. It was certainly entertaining and I missed your posts once you arrived in Crete. I had thought perhaps our paths would cross once we eventually moved to Crete and I would get to hear more of your adventures and I certainly felt that we couldn't help but like you.
I have concerns about how well I will cope with the Cretan attitude to animals and I hope that I never become complacent about it. My cats are my babies and even my family and friends here in the UK think I go over the top with the care I lavish on them. In fact my mum said recently that if a cat arrived on my doorstop shortly after she passed away, it will be her coming back to live a pampered life as one of my pets.
I wish you and H all the best for the future and hope that we can look forward to the occasional post hearing how you are settling back in the UK.
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Assimilate
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 9:10 am
Re: Cretan Adventure - The end of the Dream
andheath wrote:
As for me, I think it is the hypocritical attitude of the blinkered (I see no cruelty) ex-pats that turns my stomach. How people can just accept situations that they would never tolerate in the UK is beyond me. I don't want to ignore it, I don't want to ever become immune to it and I don't want to stop caring about the suffering of living creatures.
So instead of helping the animals, by becoming active in lobbying in educating, helping the many rescue centres etc, you ran back to the UK and hid them from your eyes. You should never of left knowing you left them to suffer. Thats hypocritical!
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The Adjectival LFB
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:49 pm
- Location: In a cool, dry place.
I've always considered andheath fair game, but I'm not into kicking people when they're down.
At least he had the bottle to admit to his problems - how many of the andheath knockers here would persist with culture migration when their partner couldn't accept it?
Andy, tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life - enjoy it.
Regards, LFB.
At least he had the bottle to admit to his problems - how many of the andheath knockers here would persist with culture migration when their partner couldn't accept it?
Andy, tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life - enjoy it.
Regards, LFB.
Lowell, Frank and Townes - all gone now.
I don't think it's a question of kicking people when they are down, ALFB, more a natural reaction to the content of Andy's post.
Many of us who live here do what we can for animals in Crete but we recognise that it will never be enough and we cannot change the world. According to Andy's post that makes us "hypocritical and blinkered". He, on the other hand, goes back to the UK so he doesn't have to see what is happening and that makes him somehow superior.
Are you really surprised that people reacted the way they did?
Warwick
Many of us who live here do what we can for animals in Crete but we recognise that it will never be enough and we cannot change the world. According to Andy's post that makes us "hypocritical and blinkered". He, on the other hand, goes back to the UK so he doesn't have to see what is happening and that makes him somehow superior.
Are you really surprised that people reacted the way they did?
Warwick
Leaving Crete
Andy + H
So sorry we have lost you - next year's olive harvest just won't be the same!
We're still keeping up with feeding the waifs & strays near here, as well as the one which moved in......
Hope you are able to find somewhere good to settle in future.
altohb
So sorry we have lost you - next year's olive harvest just won't be the same!
We're still keeping up with feeding the waifs & strays near here, as well as the one which moved in......
Hope you are able to find somewhere good to settle in future.
altohb
Thanks for the kind words but I do have to pick up on one point (It would be out of character if I didn't).
Warwick wrote:
If you read exactly what I wrote, you will see I referred to the
I suppose it is a case of "if the cap fits........."
So why take ofence Warwick? You also say many people including you, do what you can for the animals of Crete. This I know and I have the greatest respect for you and the many other people like you that help in this way. No issue, not your cap then is it?
Finally Warwick wrote:
Where the hell do you get that from? Not very nice at all but I fail to see how anything I wrote could be interpreted as such.
Sorry
Down but not out
Warwick wrote:
According to Andy's post that makes us "hypocritical and blinkered".
If you read exactly what I wrote, you will see I referred to the
(I see no cruelty) ex-pats
I suppose it is a case of "if the cap fits........."
So why take ofence Warwick? You also say many people including you, do what you can for the animals of Crete. This I know and I have the greatest respect for you and the many other people like you that help in this way. No issue, not your cap then is it?
Finally Warwick wrote:
and that makes him somehow superior.
Where the hell do you get that from? Not very nice at all but I fail to see how anything I wrote could be interpreted as such.
Sorry
Down but not out
This Cretan Adventure thing is way beyond a joke.
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The Adjectival LFB
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:49 pm
- Location: In a cool, dry place.
the above Kilkis post
Kilkis wrote
"I don't think it's a question of kicking people when they are down, ALFB, more a natural reaction to the content of Andy's post."
Maybe on occasion a measured response is more in order than an emotive (natural) reaction. Possibly a measured response in this case would be of a compassionate nature.
Kilkis wrote
"Many of us who live here do what we can for animals in Crete but we recognise that it will never be enough and we cannot change the world. According to Andy's post that makes us "hypocritical and blinkered". He, on the other hand, goes back to the UK so he doesn't have to see what is happening and that makes him somehow superior."
I wasn't aware that he was referring to ex-pats en masse, I also think you're being creative when you accuse him of being superior.
Kilkis wrote
"Are you really surprised that people reacted the way they did?"
Sadly, no.
Look, andheath has aroused various negative emotions in me during his post history but at the moment I suspect he's at a definitive low and I think he deserves support rather than the other thing. People were happy to be amused by his writing - one should give as well as take.
Regards LFB.
EDIT. the above was posted before I saw the andheath post immediately above it.
"I don't think it's a question of kicking people when they are down, ALFB, more a natural reaction to the content of Andy's post."
Maybe on occasion a measured response is more in order than an emotive (natural) reaction. Possibly a measured response in this case would be of a compassionate nature.
Kilkis wrote
"Many of us who live here do what we can for animals in Crete but we recognise that it will never be enough and we cannot change the world. According to Andy's post that makes us "hypocritical and blinkered". He, on the other hand, goes back to the UK so he doesn't have to see what is happening and that makes him somehow superior."
I wasn't aware that he was referring to ex-pats en masse, I also think you're being creative when you accuse him of being superior.
Kilkis wrote
"Are you really surprised that people reacted the way they did?"
Sadly, no.
Look, andheath has aroused various negative emotions in me during his post history but at the moment I suspect he's at a definitive low and I think he deserves support rather than the other thing. People were happy to be amused by his writing - one should give as well as take.
Regards LFB.
EDIT. the above was posted before I saw the andheath post immediately above it.
Lowell, Frank and Townes - all gone now.
Sorry to hear that you are now back in UK.
Unfortunately, as has been said the animal situation is not something which can be changed overnight, people see the problem from different angles, in many ways it is a cultural matter with the Greeks. We all do what we can to help, even though some like myself are not there full time. It often hurts me to see the plight of some of the animals there, strays and barrel dogs alike, but you cannot help them all, and like it or not it is a part of life you have to accept to a certain degree.
Lest we forget, however, the UK is not without its problems, last week we had the horrendous story of horses and donkeys being kept in filthy and starving conditions, to the extent they were actually standing on the skeletal remains of those who had died before. The RSPCA were stated to 'have been aware and made earlier investigations into the matter', their comment ultimately being that, 'the situation had deteriorated subsequently'.
Hopefully both H and yourself will continue to support the Animal Welfare Charities you have come into contact with in Crete now you are back in UK.
Good luck!
Kathleen
Unfortunately, as has been said the animal situation is not something which can be changed overnight, people see the problem from different angles, in many ways it is a cultural matter with the Greeks. We all do what we can to help, even though some like myself are not there full time. It often hurts me to see the plight of some of the animals there, strays and barrel dogs alike, but you cannot help them all, and like it or not it is a part of life you have to accept to a certain degree.
Lest we forget, however, the UK is not without its problems, last week we had the horrendous story of horses and donkeys being kept in filthy and starving conditions, to the extent they were actually standing on the skeletal remains of those who had died before. The RSPCA were stated to 'have been aware and made earlier investigations into the matter', their comment ultimately being that, 'the situation had deteriorated subsequently'.
Hopefully both H and yourself will continue to support the Animal Welfare Charities you have come into contact with in Crete now you are back in UK.
Good luck!
Kathleen
Sorry that it didn't work out for you Andy and H.
Thanks for the Cretan Adventure board (even though you had to talk us into it!) and for making us laugh (and cry a bit). It's good to see that you made some friends and some fans here.
Good luck to you both.
Thanks for the Cretan Adventure board (even though you had to talk us into it!) and for making us laugh (and cry a bit). It's good to see that you made some friends and some fans here.
Good luck to you both.
Carol www.livingincrete.net
I'm sorry Andy and ALFB but Andy's post is at best ambiguous.
Andy wrote "...the hypocritical attitude of THE blinkered (I see no cruelty) ex-pats...". I took the (I see no cruelty) clause as explaining the word "blinkered" not as a limitation on which ex pats he was referring to. I also read "hypocritical" and "blinkered" as applying to all ex pats not as a description of which particular ex pats he was describing. Perhaps if he had referred to "those" blinkered ... or "some" blinkered ... his meaning would have been clearer. I suspect other people who responded negatively read it the same way.
Andy went on to write " I don't want to ignore it, I don't want to ever become immune to it and I don't want to stop caring". Given the above interpretation of the first part of the paragraph this seems to imply that all us ex pats do ignore it, have become immune to it and have stopped caring. Now isn't that just a tiny little bit superior?
Warwick
Andy wrote "...the hypocritical attitude of THE blinkered (I see no cruelty) ex-pats...". I took the (I see no cruelty) clause as explaining the word "blinkered" not as a limitation on which ex pats he was referring to. I also read "hypocritical" and "blinkered" as applying to all ex pats not as a description of which particular ex pats he was describing. Perhaps if he had referred to "those" blinkered ... or "some" blinkered ... his meaning would have been clearer. I suspect other people who responded negatively read it the same way.
Andy went on to write " I don't want to ignore it, I don't want to ever become immune to it and I don't want to stop caring". Given the above interpretation of the first part of the paragraph this seems to imply that all us ex pats do ignore it, have become immune to it and have stopped caring. Now isn't that just a tiny little bit superior?
Warwick
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