UK Referendum

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filippos
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby filippos » Sat May 21, 2016 6:08 pm

I was with him right up to the final six paragraphs. Up to that point his argument strongly reinforced my long-held opinion that the UK (and Greece), in the medium to long term, will be better out than in. To me, those last six paragraphs turned his whole argument on its head.

Provided the UK government doesn't find some excuse for delaying distribution of the voting papers so it becomes difficult to to return them before the deadline I'll be voting "Out".

Jeffstclair
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby Jeffstclair » Sat May 21, 2016 7:08 pm

Interesting it's the last bit that clinched it for me as well ,the idea of the UK leaving and Greece leaving adding to the general instability and dividing the people of Europe even more fills me with dread ... Yeah I like the bit about the ballot papers ....

moved 2 crete
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby moved 2 crete » Sat May 21, 2016 9:49 pm

My vote to stay in is simply self interest I rely on my hospital treatment through reciprocal agreements that exist in the EU for my continued medical treatment, being a kidney patient and a diabetic, we retired here 10 years ago on good medical advice from our local GP accepting that all our lives paying into the health system in England we would received a like treatment in Crete that has been honoured up to now and kept my health as good as could be in fact as my English GP advised has improved enough to allow me to work my 2000 sq mtre plot and at 76 I hope will continue into the future to enjoy the rest our lives here on this wonderful Greek island having committed fully to living here full time burning our boats and selling up and buying our plot and home here hopefully for ever, many more pensioners through out the other EU countries who have retired in those EU countries may feel the same, I also hope the ballot papers arrive in time,maybe we can vote on line. I rest my case.
Dave H

Istronian
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby Istronian » Sun May 22, 2016 8:09 am

Jeffstclair wrote:Interesting it's the last bit that clinched it for me as well ,the idea of the UK leaving and Greece leaving adding to the general instability and dividing the people of Europe even more fills me with dread .


So according to Varoufakis we should stay in so that we can convince the other members of the error of their ways. What arrogant nonsense!

Firstly, Cameron’s failed negotiations showed that the EU is not capable of reform. Varoufakis himself said that they would not even listen to his suggestions. Why does he assume they will listen the second time around?

Secondly, the other members are there by their own choice. They exercised their sovereign right to join. A right that should be respected, not challenged. I also accept no responsibility for the decisions, good or bad, made by other countries.

I am reminded of the Greek lessons I attended when I first arrived here. There were 6 of us in the class, the minimum number required. The teacher was, in my opinion, useless and I debated whether to leave knowing the class would be scrapped if I did. When I announced that I was leaving 2 other members thanked me as they also wanted to leave but didn’t want to be the ones responsible for the closure.

Ian

peebee
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby peebee » Sun May 22, 2016 9:26 am

Found this old article by chance yesterday, might be of interest to some http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-426827/What-Britain-HADNT-joined-EU.html

bobscott
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby bobscott » Sun May 22, 2016 1:07 pm

Istronian wrote: What arrogant nonsense!

Ian


Arrant nonsense?
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

filippos
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby filippos » Sun May 22, 2016 4:16 pm

Could be either or both.

bobscott
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby bobscott » Mon May 23, 2016 8:58 am

filippos wrote:Could be either or both.


Agree, but I think my alternative is the more commonly used when coupled with 'nonsense'. Just an opinion though. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

bobscott
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby bobscott » Mon May 23, 2016 5:53 pm

A further update on the progress of the fight to get those of us with 15 or more years living in the EU outside of the UK the right to vote in the forthcoming referendum:

As you may be aware the Supreme Court in England and Wales is televised and therefore you should be able to watch proceedings tomorrow on your computer via the link below:
https://www.supremecourt.uk/live/court-02.html
The hearing will be from 1000 tomorrow until 1300 (UK times)
The Home Page for the Supreme Court is here: https://www.supremecourt.uk/index.html

I am not in charge of their IT so I can only hope it all works on the day for you to be able to watch the proceedings!
All best wishes and fingers crossed.
David Standard, Leigh Day
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby Kilkis » Tue May 24, 2016 10:56 am

Can anyone explain the logic in the Daily Mail article?

Theme 1: If the UK hadn't joined the EU it would not have to pay into the EU budget, it would not have to implement EU legislation and it would not have to accept EU immigrants.

Theme 2: If the UK had not joined the EU it would have been more successful. Look at how well Norway has done and they didn't join.

Missing Theme. Norway has to pay into the EU budget just the same as the UK does but does not receive EU spending. Norway has to implement the majority of EU legislation but doesn't have any say whatsoever in what that legislation says. Norway has to accept the free movement of EU citizens just like the UK does.

Warwick

bobscott
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby bobscott » Tue May 24, 2016 12:01 pm

Further to my last, no TV, (wrong court) but the Appeal has been dismissed. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2016/469.html
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Carolina
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby Carolina » Tue May 24, 2016 5:02 pm

That rules us out then Bob, thanks for the update.

Rather a late thought (and one I can't even vote on) - for those of us still working and paying Greek National Insurance, what will happen re the coordination rules for NI contributions paid in two or more countries if UK leaves? In my case, for example, I have perhaps 8 years of UK contributions and at present within the EU they should be added to Greek contributions when I claim a pension. Will those UK contributions just be lost if the UK exits?

Istronian
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby Istronian » Tue May 24, 2016 5:32 pm

Kilkis wrote:Missing Theme. Norway has to pay into the EU budget just the same as the UK does but does not receive EU spending. Norway has to implement the majority of EU legislation but doesn't have any say whatsoever in what that legislation says. Norway has to accept the free movement of EU citizens just like the UK does. Warwick


Some excerpts from a Statement from the board of No to EU in Norway. (Google it for refs)

"From the campaign in 1994 to keep Norway out of EU, No to EU is familiar with the tactics the British people currently are experiencing."

"We know from our own experience the EU system and the government apparatus will do everything possible to inject fear into people about the consequences of leaving the EU. The disaster stories of lost jobs and a plummeting pound if the UK would dare leave the union, sound desperately familiar to No to EU. Prior to the referenda on EU membership in Norway in 1972 and 1994, the Norwegian people were told the industry would flee the country and 100,000 jobs would be lost if we voted no to the EU. The reality has turned out to be quite the opposite. Since 1994, the Norwegian economy has developed and grown much more than the economies in EU member states. Norway has full sovereignty in the agricultural and fishery sectors, and the management of the Norwegian fisheries has been a great success."

""The British government has repeated the myth that Norway must accept three‐quarters of EU laws and regulations. The reality is that Norway has implemented less than 10 percent of the laws and regulations, which the EU has adopted in the period 2000‐2013. In addition, the EEA Agreement has a clause enabling Norway to refuse the implementation of new EU rules, a right EU member states do not have.

"From the beginning of No to EU’s history, our aim has been to safeguard our democracy, defend our sovereignty and our natural resources. Our stance is based on international solidarity with people, both in the EU and in developing countries. Outside the EU, Norway has an independent voice on the international scene. A UK outside the EU will be an interesting partner for Norway in achieving a modern trade agreement with the EU, preferably through EFTA, where we have cooperated previously."

Ian

Jeffstclair
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby Jeffstclair » Tue May 24, 2016 6:05 pm

This caught my eye today....Sir Alan Duncan on the in or out debate .... BTW has anyone got their ballot papers yet? ..jeff..


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016 ... o-stay-in/

Kilkis
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Re: UK Referendum

Postby Kilkis » Wed May 25, 2016 10:22 am

Nobody knows, Carol. Every piece of EU legislation is enacted as UK law. Treaties usually as primary legislation, i.e. acts of parliament, and directives as secondary legislation, i. e. Statutory Instruments. If the UK leaves the EU the governent will have to decide whether to repeal, modify or keep each piece on a case by case basis while negotiating with the EU how it will react to each decision. Until that process is complete nobody will know what is happening. Also, for many pieces, they will also have to change how the administrative systems deal with that legislation. I find it difficult to believe this can be achieved in 2 years.


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