Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

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Philb
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Philb » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:09 pm

scooby wrote:
Yorgo wrote:I love the way REMAIN voters never, ever mention the fact of the democratic vote to leave. I voted EXIT and never expected to win so how sick must the remain voters really feel? not in a month of Sundays did remain voters envisage a referendum decision to exit.
Look, before the referendum there were lots of prominent remainers, who because they were sure the vote would go their way were saying there will never be a 2nd vote, now the same people want another. The only question was stay or leave, you are either in or out, it's simple and they should get on with it but to keep arguing about the decision of the vote is ridiculous.


I think any sane person would want to vote on the outcome of the negotiations. Don't I recall Davis and Rees Mogg saying similar at the outset. Didn't Farage say 52:48 the other way would be 'unfinished business'?

Philb
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Philb » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:12 pm

scooby wrote:
Philb wrote:
Yorgo wrote:I love the way REMAIN voters never, ever mention the fact of the democratic vote to leave. I voted EXIT and never expected to win so how sick must the remain voters really feel? not in a month of Sundays did remain voters envisage a referendum decision to exit.


It it emerging that the 'democratic' vote in 2016 was not so fair.

https://mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwal ... 6104574976
What has been proven? absolutely nothing. Why don't they look into why the remain camp had funding from Goldman Sachs and J P Morgan because they are not corrupt in any way. I mean Cameron spent about 10 million of tax payers money on leaflets to remain? Come on, I think "clutching" and "straws" come to mind here.


Enough has been proven to warrant fines and referral of Arron Banks to the National Crime agency.

You didn't read the link did you Scooby?

scooby
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby scooby » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:16 pm

Philb wrote:


Enough has been proven to warrant fines and referral of Arron Banks to the National Crime agency.

You didn't read the link did you Scooby?[/quote]I did read actually, nothing has been proven as to where the money has come from, that's the main issue?
Men in suits will always make you pay.

scooby
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby scooby » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:17 pm

Philb wrote:
scooby wrote:
Yorgo wrote:I love the way REMAIN voters never, ever mention the fact of the democratic vote to leave. I voted EXIT and never expected to win so how sick must the remain voters really feel? not in a month of Sundays did remain voters envisage a referendum decision to exit.
Look, before the referendum there were lots of prominent remainers, who because they were sure the vote would go their way were saying there will never be a 2nd vote, now the same people want another. The only question was stay or leave, you are either in or out, it's simple and they should get on with it but to keep arguing about the decision of the vote is ridiculous.


I think any sane person would want to vote on the outcome of the negotiations. Don't I recall Davis and Rees Mogg saying similar at the outset. Didn't Farage say 52:48 the other way would be 'unfinished business'?
In is in and out is out, doesn't matter how it happens.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Philb
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Philb » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:28 pm

'Doesn't matter how'. That is an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Kamisiana
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Kamisiana » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:29 pm

The lies and deceit started back in the 1970s document FC030/1048 google it
it will take forever to read but you can read the link to get the gist of it

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... ish-public

Philb
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Philb » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:30 pm

scooby wrote:
Philb wrote:


Enough has been proven to warrant fines and referral of Arron Banks to the National Crime agency.

You didn't read the link did you Scooby?
I did read actually, nothing has been proven as to where the money has come from, that's the main issue?[/quote]

The investigation into where the money came from is on going in addition.

scooby
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby scooby » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:33 pm

Philb wrote:
scooby wrote:
Philb wrote:


Enough has been proven to warrant fines and referral of Arron Banks to the National Crime agency.

You didn't read the link did you Scooby?
I did read actually, nothing has been proven as to where the money has come from, that's the main issue?


The investigation into where the money came from is on going in addition.[/quote]Keep grasping, you never know.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Kilkis
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Kilkis » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:49 pm

scooby wrote:...In is in and out is out, doesn't matter how it happens.


And if the final outcome is that the UK stays in the single market and the customs union for an undefined period, continues to pay into the budget for an undefined period, accepts EU laws for an undefined period with no say on the nature of those laws BUT is no longer formerly a member of the EU is that in or is that out? That is what appears to be being proposed at the moment, although we won't know for sure for a few days yet.

Warwick

scooby
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby scooby » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:00 pm

Kilkis wrote:
scooby wrote:...In is in and out is out, doesn't matter how it happens.


And if the final outcome is that the UK stays in the single market and the customs union for an undefined period, continues to pay into the budget for an undefined period, accepts EU laws for an undefined period with no say on the nature of those laws BUT is no longer formerly a member of the EU is that in or is that out? That is what appears to be being proposed at the moment, although we won't know for sure for a few days yet.

Warwick
Will it get through parliament?
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Kilkis
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Kilkis » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:37 am

Will anything? More MPs are remainers and they might vote for such an arrangement if the only alternative is a no-deal. SNP and Liberals want to stay in the customs union and the single market so presumably they would be inclined to vote for it. Labour want something like the customs union and the single market so a lot of them might vote for it, whatever the whip says, if it is the nearest they can get to what they want. Remain leaning and loyal Tories would vote for it if it is what is proposed by the government. There again they might not. All the non-Tories might vote against it in the hope of forcing a general election. I'm a remainer and I would regard such a deal as the worst of all worlds. I am not convinced that many leave voters would view such a deal as honouring the democratic vote? Hence my question. Would those who support leave, of which you are one, regard such a deal as leaving or staying in.

Warwick

Jeffstclair
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Jeffstclair » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:23 am

So is the UK going to move from being half in to being half out ?

Kilkis
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Kilkis » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:42 am

I'm not sure I understand that comment, Jeff. We are currently a full member of the EU so we can't "move from being half in". How you describe where we end up will depend on what the details of the final deal are and your viewpoint. Brino seems to be the current popular epithet.

Warwick

Jeffstclair
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Jeffstclair » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:32 am

Yes the UK is a full member ,but it has not adopted the Euro and therefore somewhat removed from the whole EU project ...many people have no idea who their MEP is and never vote in the elections, so in some way never embraced Europe. So sort of half in ...and now will shift a millimetre ..to be half out ...that is what I meant ... sorry not had enough coffee yet ... So you think Brino is on the cards ...that sounds like a situation that will please no one ....

Kilkis
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Re: Predictions for 2019 include a Hard Brexit

Postby Kilkis » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:28 am

Sorry, Jeff, but I have to disagree with you there. Not adopting the Euro and not being in Schengen does not make the UK "only half in the EU". The UK pays its full share of the budget, is one of the biggest net contributors, has adopted every EU law and mostly enforces them quite rigorously, accepts the four freedoms, although it doesn't like one of them, has voting rights in the main EU institutions. You can certainly argue that because it is not in the Euro or Schengen it is not "a full member" but pretty close. I think the MEP situation is irrelevant. When I lived in the UK I did not vote and had no idea who my MP was. Does that make me half British?

If the deal works out in the way it seems to be heading you could probably describe it as shifting a millimetre from being virtually a full member to being almost virtually a full member. A bit like when the Hitch-hikers' Guide to the Galaxy was revised and the entry for Earth was changed from "Harmless" to "Relatively harmless"?

The way the discussion seems to be going at the moment I think there is a high probability that it will be described as Brino. Personally I think that whatever the outcome is, from totally remaining to a full no-deal Brexit and anywhere between, more people will dislike it than will like it.

Warwick


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