The Will of the People

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
Maud
Posts: 663
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: S.W. England/ S.W. Crete.

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Maud » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:43 pm

Sorry Warwick. Five comments up you asked me....

“But what does ‘Putting your country first’ mean Maud?

I was replying to your question from a personal view.......which Bob has correctly picked up on. If one asked for an opinion, any reply is going to be a personal one.

Guy M
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Guy M » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:12 pm

Fasten your seatbelts - no one can say where the next driver is going to take the U.K.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... SApp_Other

scooby
Posts: 1607
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm
Location: Agia Nr Chania

Re: The Will of the People

Postby scooby » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:58 pm

Let’s be clear, both of the candidates are not up to scratch and I know it’s let’s bash Boris month, but this is not about who will make a good Prime minister but who will actually make Brexit happen and that is the only reason Boris is leading. After that none of them will last long.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

bobscott
Posts: 2425
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: The Will of the People

Postby bobscott » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:55 am

scooby wrote:Let’s be clear,


Good Lord Scooby - don't YOU start! We get enough clarity from the Tory benches!!!
Bob
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
Posts: 10624
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:28 pm

Well we know exactly why he won the contest amongst MPs. He offered them a bribe of £6,623.40 increase in their take home pay if they voted for him. I don't think it is any accident that an MPs basic salary is £79,468 and the very first policy he revealed was an increase in the threshold for the 40 % tax rate to £80,000. Having won the parliamentary part of the process he now has a simple narrative to convince Tory party members:

    1 I can do Brexit and nobody else can.
    2 I was an absolutely brilliant Mayor of London so I will be an absolutely brilliant PM.
    3 I won the London Mayoral race twice, a traditional Labour stronghold, so I can beat Corbyn.

In his limited number of televised debates/interviews so far he has not strayed from that narrative one nanometre. Every question outside that narrative is blocked, usually simply by returning to the narrative. That is normally a pretty good indicator that the narrative is very weakly grounded in reality. Theresa May did it all the time as have many MPs of all parties. His plan for achieving Brexit is 4 pronged:

    1 Disaggregate the items in the Withdrawal Agreement. So far the EU has stuck unanimously to a policy that the Withdrawal Agreement is a package and you cannot disaggregate it.
    2 Withhold the £39 billion and adopt a policy of "constructive ambiguity". So far the EU has said that if the UK refuses to pay the £39 billion they will simply take the UK to the International Court. As far as they are concerned the £39 billion is a debt that the UK owes to the EU so not paying it would be the same as the UK government defaulting on a debt. I have no idea what the outcome of such a case would be but I wouldn't bet on the UK winning. Even if the court ruled that the figure should be lower for some reason, not paying would still be a default and governments defaulting on their debts never ends well.
    3 Adopt a bidirectional zero tariff policy on trade until a trade agreement can be reached. This might be possible under GAT 24, which is part of WTO rules but it is not certain. The overriding rule in the WTO rule book is that of "Most Favoured Nation", i.e. you must treat all WTO members the same. WTO rules do allow bilateral and multilateral trade agreements where countries can have lower quotas and/or tariffs between themselves than they generally use and the EU itself is an example of that, i.e. totally free trade between its members but tariffs imposed on non-members. There is a clause within GAT 24 that allows countries to temporarily apply zero tariffs for a period of time while they are completing a free trade agreement and Boris believes he can use that clause. It is this idea that is debatable. Firstly the clause is intended for countries that are working towards a free trade agreement but the UK is leaving a free trade agreement so WTO might not be amenable to seeing the clause use in that situation. Secondly, and more importantly, it requires the agreement of the EU and the EU has said that you cannot have EU benefits unless you adhere to EU membership rules.
    4 Replace the backstop with alternative arrangements. Nobody in the Tory party seems to understand or accept that the EU are demanding the backstop because they are not convinced that alternative arrangements will work or how long they will take to implement.

It's certainly a plan but I don't think I would describe it as "a cunning plan" even by Baldrick's standards. Obviously it is a possibility that the EU will go along with this plan but if you wanted to express it as a probability I think you would need a Summit supercomputer to calculate how many zeros to put after the decimal point.

Warwick

Tim
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:41 pm
Location: Near Sitia
Contact:

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Tim » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:13 pm

I'm sure Boris is aware of the above and I suspect his so-called plan is merely flim-flam for the media. His real plan (if elected) is to go straight for a no-deal exit and his big gamble is that when the inevitable no confidence motion is debated, the Tory MP's that have said they'll vote against the government and bring it down, will pull back from the brink and support him. I strongly suspect they won't (and it wouldn't need many) and that Boris could go down as the shortest serving PM in British history.

Tim

Kamisiana
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kamisiana » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:59 pm

Tim wrote:I'm sure Boris is aware of the above and I suspect his so-called plan is merely flim-flam for the media. His real plan (if elected) is to go straight for a no-deal exit and his big gamble is that when the inevitable no confidence motion is debated, the Tory MP's that have said they'll vote against the government and bring it down, will pull back from the brink and support him. I strongly suspect they won't (and it wouldn't need many) and that Boris could go down as the shortest serving PM in British history.

Tim


Enter the Brexit Party.

Guy M
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Guy M » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:18 pm

If I was PM in the current situation (it’s never going to happen, don’t worry) I’d go for a general election in early October, and make a deal with Farage on which seats the Brexit Party will contest (the Lab northern ones) safe in the knowledge that Lab is 1) as split as the Cons, 2) tribally set against electoral pacts, and 3) led by an electoral liability. The election would avoid the need to sort this out by 31 October, and with a parliamentary majority, something not unlike the Withdrawal Agreement will get through. The U.K. would be out by Christmas, the Cons would be saved, Lab would be destroyed and there’d be 5 years to implement tax cuts for the rich, do deals with US companies on sale of drugs at a profit to the NHS and bring in chlorinated chicken. Which is fine if you are a healthy, higher rate tax paying vegetarian - but we are a very small proportion of the general population :)

Jeffstclair
Posts: 1294
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: The centre of the universe

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Jeffstclair » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:40 pm

Which is fine if you are a healthy, higher rate tax paying vegetarian - but we are a very small proportion of the general population :)[/quote]




Well I score two out of three :?

scooby
Posts: 1607
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm
Location: Agia Nr Chania

Re: The Will of the People

Postby scooby » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:48 pm

Kilkis wrote:Well we know exactly why he won the contest amongst MPs. He offered them a bribe of £6,623.40 increase in their take home pay if they voted for him. I don't think it is any accident that an MPs basic salary is £79,468 and the very first policy he revealed was an increase in the threshold for the 40 % tax rate to £80,000. Having won the parliamentary part of the process he now has a simple narrative to convince Tory party members:

    1 I can do Brexit and nobody else can.
    2 I was an absolutely brilliant Mayor of London so I will be an absolutely brilliant PM.
    3 I won the London Mayoral race twice, a traditional Labour stronghold, so I can beat Corbyn.

In his limited number of televised debates/interviews so far he has not strayed from that narrative one nanometre. Every question outside that narrative is blocked, usually simply by returning to the narrative. That is normally a pretty good indicator that the narrative is very weakly grounded in reality. Theresa May did it all the time as have many MPs of all parties. His plan for achieving Brexit is 4 pronged:

    1 Disaggregate the items in the Withdrawal Agreement. So far the EU has stuck unanimously to a policy that the Withdrawal Agreement is a package and you cannot disaggregate it.
    2 Withhold the £39 billion and adopt a policy of "constructive ambiguity". So far the EU has said that if the UK refuses to pay the £39 billion they will simply take the UK to the International Court. As far as they are concerned the £39 billion is a debt that the UK owes to the EU so not paying it would be the same as the UK government defaulting on a debt. I have no idea what the outcome of such a case would be but I wouldn't bet on the UK winning. Even if the court ruled that the figure should be lower for some reason, not paying would still be a default and governments defaulting on their debts never ends well.
    3 Adopt a bidirectional zero tariff policy on trade until a trade agreement can be reached. This might be possible under GAT 24, which is part of WTO rules but it is not certain. The overriding rule in the WTO rule book is that of "Most Favoured Nation", i.e. you must treat all WTO members the same. WTO rules do allow bilateral and multilateral trade agreements where countries can have lower quotas and/or tariffs between themselves than they generally use and the EU itself is an example of that, i.e. totally free trade between its members but tariffs imposed on non-members. There is a clause within GAT 24 that allows countries to temporarily apply zero tariffs for a period of time while they are completing a free trade agreement and Boris believes he can use that clause. It is this idea that is debatable. Firstly the clause is intended for countries that are working towards a free trade agreement but the UK is leaving a free trade agreement so WTO might not be amenable to seeing the clause use in that situation. Secondly, and more importantly, it requires the agreement of the EU and the EU has said that you cannot have EU benefits unless you adhere to EU membership rules.
    4 Replace the backstop with alternative arrangements. Nobody in the Tory party seems to understand or accept that the EU are demanding the backstop because they are not convinced that alternative arrangements will work or how long they will take to implement.

It's certainly a plan but I don't think I would describe it as "a cunning plan" even by Baldrick's standards. Obviously it is a possibility that the EU will go along with this plan but if you wanted to express it as a probability I think you would need a Summit supercomputer to calculate how many zeros to put after the decimal point.

Warwick
So what is Hunt’s plan? It’s not all about Bojo.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Kilkis
Posts: 10624
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:05 pm

Who cares? He's not going to win.

You don't need to be massively wealthy to be in a higher tax rate band in Greece, Jeff and Guy. The first €20,000 is taxed at 22 %, the next €10,000 at 29 % the next €10,000 at 37 % and then everything above €40,000 is taxed at 45 %. There isn't a tax free band as such, you pay from the first Euro, but there is a rebate of up to €1,900 reducing if you earn more than €20,000. That's approximately equivalent to a tax free band of €8,636 provided you earn less than €20,000 per year. On top of that you pay a solidarity tax which also goes in bands from 0 % to 10 %. Somebody earning between €30,000 and €40,000 would have an effective marginal tax rate of 43.5 % plus 16 % EFKA. I realise that between €30,000 and €40,000 is a decent income but it isn't exactly Warren Buffet territory to have a total marginal stoppage rate of approaching 60 %.

Warwick

Guy M
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Guy M » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:07 pm

You never have to be massively wealthy to pay higher rate income tax - you just have to have a good income. Indeed, the massively wealthy use trust funds to avoid paying much tax at all - on their income and on their wealth.

Kilkis
Posts: 10624
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:54 pm

I'll rephrase. You don't need to have a massive income to be in a higher tax rate band in Greece.

Warwick

Kamisiana
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kamisiana » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:16 am

Can anyone find any way of blaming Brexit for the future UK job loses due to robots even the Guardian has not made a link yet :shock:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... eports-say

Philb
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Philb » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:40 am

Kamisiana wrote:Can anyone find any way of blaming Brexit for the future UK job loses due to robots even the Guardian has not made a link yet :shock:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... eports-say


No, we'll just stick to current job losses due to brexit and continue to watch them unfold.


Return to “Brexit and Living in Greece”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest