Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

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Rick
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Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Rick » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:53 pm

Contingency Planning for changes......

The Greek government has clarified that with effect from 1st January 2021, all existing residence certificates for UK citizens will need to be replaced with biometric residence cards currently issued to “3rd country” residents. (Brexit deal or no deal).

I own a second home in Crete, and spend on average 5 months a year there in the summer. I also have a beige residents certificate, and used my EHIC card to satisfy the requirement of having comprehensive healthcare. I have not yet reached state retirement age.

The best case scenario when I exchange my residence certificate for a biometric residence card, is that I will just need to provide my existing residence certificate, a current photograph, have fingerprints taken and provide my signature - all of which will be captured electronically and transposed to a biometric residence card. A clean criminal record will also be a prerequisite, and presumably a database search will check for criminal convictions.

However, I envisage that I will also need to reconfirm that I have adequate private healthcare. My EHIC will no longer be valid, but in the event of medical emergencies, I will use my travel insurance which is valid for periods of up to 3 months in any one trip. Any other health problems would be addressed by my UK GP & NHS. This won’t satisfy “proof of healthcare” during the process to obtain my biometric residence card though.

A workaround will be to take out a healthcare insurance to satisfy the residency requirement, then cancel it before the 2nd month’s premium becomes due.
Also, I will need to ensure that I spend at least 6 months and one day in Crete each year to satisfy ongoing validity of residency - my time spent in Crete will be captured upon passport scanning at boarder controls when I enter and leave Crete (passport stamping will be obsolete), So my annual 5 month stay will need to be increased to 6 months.

Some feedback would be welcome to confirm my assumptions are correct, and any other suggestions / loopholes to get around the dummy healthcare requirement I may need. I’m conscious that I will still be able to spend 6 months each year in Crete WITHOUT a biometric residence card, but the “90 in 180” days rule wouldn’t suit me - I don’t want to spend 3 months in the summer and 3 months in the winter.

P.S. Piraeus bank are advertising healthcare insurance with annual premiums starting at €360 - seems too good to be true?
Source...https://www.piraeusbank.gr/el/idiwtes/a ... eia-ygeias

ros21m
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby ros21m » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:11 pm

My understanding is that this will apply to PERMANENT residents in Greece.

Tim
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Tim » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:15 pm

Rick wrote: I will need to ensure that I spend at least 6 months and one day in Crete each year to satisfy ongoing validity of residency -


Hi Rick

Is this an assumption? I've been both a visitor and a permanent resident, but I don't believe I've ever seen this rule/criterion written down. I'm not sure that just because 6 months is the maximum annual staying time under the new rules, over 6 months makes you 'permanent'. It'd be good if that were the case. I'd be interested to know where you've got that from.

Regards
Tim

Tim
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Tim » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:41 pm

Rick wrote:A workaround will be to take out a healthcare insurance to satisfy the residency requirement, then cancel it before the 2nd month’s premium becomes due.


For interest, I did this when I applied to upgrade my beige card to a blue one. I discovered that on my particular policy, it had to be held for a minimum of 3 months before it could be cancelled. (Or cancelled and pay up the outstanding). Don't know if that's standard across the industry ....

Tim

Rick
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Rick » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:43 pm

“ continuity of residence with a Registration Certificate is not affected by temporary absences, not exceeding a total of six months a year or by longer absences for important reasons.”

This paragraph is extracted from the following site, and has previously been quoted by Carolina

http://brexit.gov.gr/uk-citizens-in-greece/

Rick
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Rick » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:51 pm

The problem I envisage with the biometric residence card, is that you will be making an application for permanent residency. This differs to the current beige residence certificate.

Kilkis
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Kilkis » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:54 pm

Nobody can tell you exactly what the rules will be until an agreement is ratified. That could be an EU wide agreement, like the draft Withdrawal Agreement published last December, although that is looking unlikely, or a UK - Greece bilateral agreement. Until any such agreement is ratified by both parties and published it is all guesswork.

To add complication it is pretty common for each police station to apply its own variations. For example, under the existing rules for EU citizens you need to provide proof of income and health care to obtain the beige Residence Certificate but, under the terms of the EU Directive, it should not be a requirement when you convert the beige certificate to a blue Permanent Residency Document. Everybody I know who has done that conversion has had to provide proof of both.

Warwick

Rick
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Rick » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:17 pm

You say that it’s still all guesswork, but the “UK Citizens in Greece” website I linked earlier states the lawful position of BREXIT deal or no deal.
I also emphasise my earlier point, that the existing EU biometric residence card issued to “third country” residents implies application for permanent residency, unlike the existing residence certificates.

Kilkis
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Kilkis » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:02 pm

Firstly the draft Withdrawal Agreement does lay down exactly what the legal position will be if the UK ratifies the draft Withdrawal Agreement. That seems improbable, but not impossible, at the moment, therefore, its terms cannot be guaranteed.

In case of no deal, the Greek law 4604/2019 provides for a grace period, from withdrawal date until 31 December 2020 and a temporary healthcare arrangement until the end of 2019. As far as I can see it doesn't guarantee any rights beyond that. If you think otherwise please cut and paste the relevant paragraphs. In particular see the paragraph:

    "Law 4604/2019 does not preclude the adoption of additional or more favorable measures in case of no deal (for UK citizens’ residence, social security and healthcare), but this will depend on further EU decisions as well as on reciprocity by the United Kingdom.

In other words, in the case of no-deal, anything beyond the end of 2020 is conditional on a bilateral agreement between the UK and Greece and the rules will be whatever it says in that bilateral agreement.

Warwick

Keltz
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Keltz » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:05 am

Rick wrote:P.S. Piraeus bank are advertising healthcare insurance with annual premiums starting at €360 - seems too good to be true?
Source...https://www.piraeusbank.gr/el/idiwtes/a ... eia-ygeias


One of the eligibility conditions for this policy is that your age must be between 3 months and 65 years.

Kilkis
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Kilkis » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:17 am

It is worth noting that some insurance companies are offering healthcare policies that are just designed to satisfy residency requirements, i.e. absolute minimum cover that will satisfy the authorities. It is possible that the really cheap policies fit into this category so you need to think about whether they would satisfy your needs. I am not saying the Piraeus one quoted by Rick necessarily fits into this category, since I have no experience of it. Just a general comment.

Warwick

Carolina
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Carolina » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:15 pm

There really isn’t enough info at this time Rick.

The Brexit Gr govt website also does not list all scenarios, it talks of only permanent residence permits (after 5 years residence, with proof).

Law 4604/2019 (referenced on the GR Brexit site) goes deeper and there is more of a synopsis here of the different types of permit (3 year & 5 year permanent) viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11717#p76350 but as yet no clarification.

Law 4604/2019 (the Brexit part of the new law) also references law 4251/2014 and law 106/2007 (the last dates are the year the law was issued) so a lot of to-ing and fro-ing is required to read all the relevant references, which to be honest, is a long slog for probably nothing as these can/will change as new laws are brought in / updated.

There MAY also be the option of a Golden Visa for those who own property worth 250,000 euros or more, although currently this is not mentioned anywhere in the Brexit gr updates.

We still just don’t know the full details and anything could happen. Limbo continues.

Carolina
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Carolina » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:19 pm


Phil C
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Phil C » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:20 pm

Hi
So reading the above if I buy my holiday home in Crete this week, I am here now, and I visit often but will not be here more than 6 months a year can I still apply for residency? If so it appears I will not be able to obtain a bio metric residency card after 2020 due to my stay being less than 6 months and I come under 90/180 day rule, correct? I could stay longer than 6 months but then I am into the tax game. Any advice on my understanding would be great.

Carolina
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Re: Exchanging residence certificates for biometric residence cards

Postby Carolina » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:53 pm

Phil C wrote:Hi
So reading the above if I buy my holiday home in Crete this week, I am here now, and I visit often but will not be here more than 6 months a year can I still apply for residency? If so it appears I will not be able to obtain a bio metric residency card after 2020 due to my stay being less than 6 months and I come under 90/180 day rule, correct? I could stay longer than 6 months but then I am into the tax game. Any advice on my understanding would be great.


As we have said, Phil C, there is as yet no clarification but the liklihood is that it will be either /or :
long term residency / permanent residency to obtain the new biometric card, or stays will be limited to 90 days in 180.


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