ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

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Rick
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ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Rick » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:42 pm

It now seems likely that the ETIAS system is unlikely to be operational until 2023

Source:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 87691.html

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/e ... y-in-2021/

Kilkis
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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Kilkis » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:02 pm

Two points worth noting:

    1 Since the UK is outside Schengen, UK citizens would have had to apply through the ETIAS system anyway even if the UK had stayed in the EU.
    2 The €7 fee covers you for three years, unless your passport expires during that time, so, if you make multiple trips in the three year period the cost per trip is very small. Typically in three years I would make 6 trips so only just over €1 per trip.

As a vaguely related point, many people will have UK passports where the date of expiry is more than 10 years after the date of issue. If you have such a passport, the EU will regard the effective expiry date as 10 years after the date of issue. Since you could stay in the EU for up to 3 months and they expect you to have at least 3 months on your passport when you leave, you may be refused entry if you have less than 6 months left on your passport from the effective expiry date. Don't do a quick glance at the expiry date shown on your passport and assume everything will be OK.

Warwick

PS Anybody who applies for a new passport will get one where the expiry date is exactly 10 years after the issue date so this will gradually cease to be an issue for people over the next nine years or so.

Carolina
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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Carolina » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:50 pm

Note also that until the ETIAS system is underway, the current system for non- EU citizens entering/leaving the Schengen zone will continue - that means an entry/exit stamp in your passport valid for 90 day stays in the EU and this will apply to British passport holders after the end of the transition period (currently end of Dec 2020), unless you have a residence certificate.

bobscott
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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby bobscott » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:05 pm

Carolina wrote:Note also that until the ETIAS system is underway, the current system for non- EU citizens entering/leaving the Schengen zone will continue - that means an entry/exit stamp in your passport valid for 90 day stays in the EU and this will apply to British passport holders after the end of the transition period (currently end of Dec 2020), unless you have a residence certificate.


Thanks for the clarification and also reinvigorating this thread which has been moribund for a few weeks! Bob
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Kilkis » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:21 pm

Presumably after the end of 2020 people should hand over their Residence Certificate, or new Biometric Residence Card once they are issued, together with the passport as they go through immigration? It would be a little unwise to rely on the immigration officer asking if you have one before stamping the passport? Does anybody know if any Embassy advice been issued on the best way to do it?

Warwick

Rick
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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Rick » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:00 pm

If passports aren’t stamped if you hold a residents certificate / biometric card, and no electronic entry / exit systems are in place to record movements in and out of Greece, a loophole may be created:

Potentially, the delay of the ETIAS implementation might allow beige resident certificate holders to stay “under the radar” until 2023 with regard to remaining in Greece for more than 183 days per year / moving to Greek tax residency in order to retain a residence card ?

Carolina
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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Carolina » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:04 pm

Rick wrote:If passports aren’t stamped if you hold a residents certificate / biometric card, and no electronic entry / exit systems are in place to record movements in and out of Greece, a loophole may be created:

Potentially, the delay of the ETIAS implementation might allow beige resident certificate holders to stay “under the radar” until 2023 with regard to remaining in Greece for more than 183 days per year / moving to Greek tax residency in order to retain a residence card ?


Passport details are still checked (logged?) on computer on entry into Greece. ' In April 2019 the Hellenic Police began implementing systematic passport control checks for all European citizens travelling to/from destinations outside the Schengen area (including the UK). This is in line with the 2017 Schengen Borders Code regulation EU 2017/458, which will eventually be applied by all Schengen member states according to the individual timescales.' This includes the scanning/checking of biometric residents permits on exit/entry for third country nationals.

I guess the questions are
1) Is this entry/exit passport information available to the Greek immigration police who issue or renew our permits?
2) Once we move to biometric cards next year, will the exit/entry travel info be available to Greek immigration police?

Carolina
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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Carolina » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:02 pm

Kilkis wrote:Presumably after the end of 2020 people should hand over their Residence Certificate, or new Biometric Residence Card once they are issued, together with the passport as they go through immigration? It would be a little unwise to rely on the immigration officer asking if you have one before stamping the passport? Does anybody know if any Embassy advice been issued on the best way to do it?

Warwick


It's a little early for Embassy advice Wawick. Expect it about a week before the end of December?!

Definitely, though, we will need to hand over Residence Certificate or card on entry, to avoid getting a stamp.

For exiting, if there is no stamp in your passport with an arrival date the immigration police (plus airline check-in and departure gate staff) will ask if you have a residence card. If not, you could be in trouble, as an ' over -stayer'.

On a related note, when you travel inter-Schengen there are no passport control checks, but the airline check your ID (passport) at check in and the departure gate. If you are a third country national (as Brits will be after Dec 2020) and you have no Schengen entry stamp in your passport and no residence card then the airline will refuse boarding and refer you to the airport immigration police. This is the airlines procedure according to my daughter who works at CHQ airport with Aegean, Easyjet, Ryanair etc.

SO this throws up another issue - there will need to be some sort of new 'transition period' for British passport holders EXITING the Schengen zone with no passport stamp and no residence card for the first three months (90 days) of 2021?

Kilkis
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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Kilkis » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:05 pm

I seem to remember reading somewhere, I can't remember where, that there is a sort of second transition period of 6 months after the end of 2020 to deal with documentation issues. I would imagine that Schengen stamp issues could be dealt with under that transition period. This does not alter the basic rules.

For example, if the Greek authorities have not issued new cards by the end of 2020 the existing cards will still be valid for up to 6 months but they would still need to have a card before the end of 2020. Similarly if EU citizens living in the UK haven't gone through the settled status process by the end of 2020 they will still have 6 months to do so. It only relates to documentation not to practicalities. An EU citizen would still have to prove that they were resident in the UK before the end of 2020. The extra 6 months wouldn't allow them to enter after the end of 2020 and claim settled status.

Warwick

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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Carolina » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:04 pm

I was thinking about those who don't have registration/residence cards, Warwick.

For example, people who live half & half in Greece & the UK, or just spend a few months or weeks here at a time and have not (and don't want) to register.

Any tourist / non resident who arrived in Greece any time before end of December 2020 will have no passport entry stamp.
So will everyone be allowed to exit up until 90 days from 31 December without an entry stamp? I would imagine that would have to be the case as immigration will have no way of knowing when they arrived (or will they) ?

Any tourist/non res arriving in Greece from Jan 2021 will have the entry stamp.

Kilkis
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Re: ETIAS Travel Authorisation System Delayed

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:32 pm

Carolina wrote:...So will everyone be allowed to exit up until 90 days from 31 December without an entry stamp? I would imagine that would have to be the case as immigration will have no way of knowing when they arrived (or will they) ? ...


I am not sure that it matters whether the authorities have a record of when people entered or not. I don't think the EU has any interest in trying to rigorously enforce Schengen rules on UK citizens until after the end of the transitions period. As far as I can tell, up to 31 December any UK citizen, resident or not, entering Greece on a UK passport will not receive an entry stamp and will be entering Greece perfectly legally without one. Therefore, provided they leave before 90 days after 31 December they will be leaving legally. Technically they may well have overstayed the Schengen rule period, e.g came in October 2020 and didn't leave until the end of March 2021, but I don't think the EU care about the part of the stay during the transition period. Anybody who is non-resident who enters after 31 December will get an entry stamp. So if anybody who is non-resident leaves more than 90 days after 31 December without an entry stamp they must have remained more than 90 days without being resident so they will have broken the Schengen rules after the end of the transition period and that will be recorded.

My own feeling is that Greece are not currently recording when people enter and leave but I don't know that for sure. Passports are scanned to see if there is any adverse information on that person on the Schengen database but I don't think the process automatically records data onto the Schengen database yet. They don't really need to for the Schengen system to work as the entry/exit stamps act as an effective database, albeit only accessible when people present themselves at immigration. I am sure a centralised record will be kept eventually, i.e. when the passport is scanned it will both search for information on that person and record that person's movement into or out of Schengen.

Warwick


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