Schengen /Brexit?

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
trebor457
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:30 pm

Schengen /Brexit?

Postby trebor457 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:42 am

I would like to pose a question. The U.K. have never been part of Schengen agreement. If Brexit had not happened would the 90/180 rule still apply to U.K. citizens? Apologies if this topic has already been covered.
Bob

Kilkis
Posts: 12548
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Schengen /Brexit?

Postby Kilkis » Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:51 pm

Quite simply, NO. When the UK was part of the EU we had freedom of movement. Freedom of movement is not restricted to Schengen, it applies to all EU citizens. All Schengen does is remove the border checks.

If you wanted to stay more than 3 months you were supposed to apply for a European Residence Certificate and that had conditions attached but, as long as you satisfied those conditions you could stay as long as you wanted. In practise the requirement to register was never strictly enforced in Greece so many people simply came here, lived here and didn't register. I lived and worked in Greece from 1997 to 2005 without registering without any problems. I only discovered that I was supposed to register and have a certificate when I wanted to change my UK driving licence for a Greek one. When I did apply for one the policeman told me I should have had one for all those years but he didn't really seem to care. He just said that if it had been Germany I wouldn't have gotten away with it.

Warwick

trebor457
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:30 pm

Re: Schengen /Brexit?

Postby trebor457 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:34 pm

Thank you Warwick.
Bob

dougm
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: Schengen /Brexit?

Postby dougm » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:30 pm

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere. As a property owner in Crete for the last 15 years that has never had any form of residence permit as we come and go from the UK where we are tax resident, what options are open to us now that we have left the EU, if we want to do anything other than the 90/180 day visa free ruling? We have a rental property and therefore pay Greek income tax etc.

BST
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:29 pm

Re: Schengen /Brexit?

Postby BST » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:41 pm

If you are on FB, I suggest you join British in Greece. There is a lot of useful info in the files and administrators who are very well informed. They have helped hundreds of people. I think your choices are limited if you want to stay between 90 and 183 days. Do you want to become residents and stay more than 183;days?

Voni
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:33 pm

Re: Schengen /Brexit?

Postby Voni » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:30 pm

I would suggest that anyone eligible for a biometric permit should apply.

The AIRE centre who have been set up to support people in applying for residency told me that in time the biometric permit will become central to day administration systems like banking etc. Remember that without a residency card or biometric card passports will be stamped at border control on arrival and the clock starts ticking towards the 90/180 day rule, there are heavy fines for overstaying, I think 100e per day!

I would agree with BST that the British in Greece FB page is an excellent source of information as is the Greek website:

https://brexit.gov.gr/uk-citizens-in-greece/

The Greek government have made provisions for people to prove their residency in various different ways, there is more detail on the police website which is linked from the above.

I am however quite saddened and amazed at the number of British ex pat home owners who weren’t aware of the possible implications of not being legally resident in Greece before BREXIT.

dougm
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: Schengen /Brexit?

Postby dougm » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:41 pm

Many thanks for your replies, I will have a look at those websites

Kilkis
Posts: 12548
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Schengen /Brexit?

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:06 pm

You can't escape the fact that before Brexit, as an EU member country but not part of Schengen, UK citizens were subject to Schengen border checks, i.e. passport control, BUT NOT to Schengen rules. Now, as a third country, UK citizens are subject to both Schengen border checks and Schengen rules. The only exception to this are people who were resident in an EU member state before the UK finally left the EU, since they come under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement which allows them to maintain there residency rights. The Withdrawal Agreement made no special provision for people who weren't, or did not want to be, resident in an EU member state but wished to still come and go as they pleased. No such category exists within the Withdrawal Agreement or within Schengen rules. It is possible that national rules may permit different terms of entry for specific classes of individuals but as far as I can see they are pretty limited and don't really fit what some people want to do.

People who held a beige residence certificate before the UK finally left the EU, because they wished to be in Greece for more than 3 months but less than 6 months in each year can still apply for the new biometric card without any problems. Those who never got a residence certificate but can show prior residency by other means can also apply for the new biometric residence card, although they may need to jump through a few more hoops. People should think carefully before doing so, however. By applying for the biometric residence card they are legally declaring to Greece's immigration department that, at least going forward, they are permanently resident in Greece, i.e. for over 183 days in each year. That might create problems at some time in the future if they are also legally declaring to another Greek government department, e.g. the tax office, that they are not resident in Greece for over 183 days in each year. I don't know if such problems will occur and I offer no advice whatsoever but logically they are a possibility and so should be considered before deciding what to do.

Warwick


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