Flights

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
chrissyg
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Re: Flights

Postby chrissyg » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:58 pm

Lost last post but nvm. I don't really understand why any expat on this forum would want the uk to leave the EU. Surely you are enjoying the freedom of living/ working here but wanting to deny this right to others?

Tim
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Re: Flights

Postby Tim » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:41 pm

chrissyg wrote:Lost last post but nvm. I don't really understand why any expat on this forum would want the uk to leave the EU. Surely you are enjoying the freedom of living/ working here but wanting to deny this right to others?


The vote was about what voters believe to be in the best long-term interests of the United Kingdom, not what individual voters think is in their best self-interests. Presumably that's why some ex-pats voted to leave.

Also, you keep making sweeping statements without a shred of evidence to back them up. Where does it say that anybody will be denied the right to live or work here?

Tim

chrissyg
Posts: 108
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Re: Flights

Postby chrissyg » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:06 pm

No i dont, immigration was one of the key issues that people voted about, you cannot deny that. Are you saying that it only meant that the uk could stop immigration into uk but it would mean we can still live and work anywhere we want. Its got to be fair. So i dont really get it. Its not a sweeping statement. I am just interested in how expats, essentially immigrants in an EU country would believe in stopping that particular freedom and why, surely that is self-interest. I am not being rude, i genuinely want to know.

Kilkis
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Re: Flights

Postby Kilkis » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:08 pm

Tim wrote:...The vote was about what voters believe to be in the best long-term interests of the United Kingdom, not what individual voters think is in their best self-interests...


Thanks for that, Tim. That's the best laugh I have had in a long time. I can't stop giggling.

Warwick

Tim
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Re: Flights

Postby Tim » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:18 pm

Kilkis wrote:
Tim wrote:...The vote was about what voters believe to be in the best long-term interests of the United Kingdom, not what individual voters think is in their best self-interests...


Thanks for that, Tim. That's the best laugh I have had in a long time. I can't stop giggling.

Warwick


You mean it was just me then? Rats.... !

Kilkis
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Re: Flights

Postby Kilkis » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:00 am

No, to be fair, Tim, I suspect a lot of people thought they were doing that. The problem is what did they base their decision on? A lot of the available information was misleading at best and a fair amount was untrue. They may have acted in good faith but were not really "well", i.e. accurately, informed. Taking it further how do you define "best". The United Kingdom is simply a collection of individuals. Government deals are overwhelmingly, perhaps exclusively, win-lose deals. Whatever they do, someone is better off and someone is worse off. What does "best" mean in that situation?

Whatever the outcome, at least everybody will have someone to blame. If you are not a supporter of the government you can blame the government for being useless negotiators. If you are part of the government or a government supporter you can blame the EU for being intransigent and going out of its way to punish the UK pour décourager les autres. If our lives are turned upside down we can blame those who voted to leave, the government and the EU so I suppose you could argue that we then "win" the most?

Warwick

eddie foster
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Re: Flights

Postby eddie foster » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:33 pm

I suspect a lot of people who voted "remain" thought they were doing that. The problem is what did they base their decision on? A lot of the available information was misleading at best and a fair amount was untrue. They may have acted in good faith but were not really "well", i.e. accurately, informed. ...

Eddie

Kilkis
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Re: Flights

Postby Kilkis » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:49 pm

I stick to my original phrasing, Eddie. Everybody, on both sides, had their own reasons for why they voted. You can divide them roughly into three groups. There is one group that want to be out of the EU choose what. Even if you told them that the UK would sink into the Atlantic and everybody would be drowned they would still vote out. There is another group that would vote to remain in the EU choose what. If you told them that the EU was going to become a centrally run empire and all UK citizens would simply act as slaves to Brussels they would still vote in. In the middle group there are people who can see both sides of the argument. Some of them voted to leave and some of them voted to remain. I think a significant number of both remain and leave voters decided on the basis of what they thought would be best but based on highly dubious information on both sides.

It is common to characterise all leave voters as racist but I don't believe that is true. I think it is true that a percentage of the UK population is racist and I would imagine all of them would vote leave so there are likely to be more racists among leave voters than remain voters.

It is also common to characterise everybody who thinks there should be a second vote as traitors trying to overthrow a democratic vote but I don't believe that is true either. Even before a final agreement is reached it is clear that the outcome is going to be very different to that promoted by leave campaigners so it is logical to ask if they still want to leave given that outcome. It is true, however, that some remain voters do want to overthrow the referendum result and so they will certainly be among those who seek a second vote.

Warwick

BST
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Re: Flights

Postby BST » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:52 pm

Kilkis wrote:
Tim wrote:...The vote was about what voters believe to be in the best long-term interests of the United Kingdom, not what individual voters think is in their best self-interests...


Thanks for that, Tim. That's the best laugh I have had in a long time. I can't stop giggling.

Warwick


Me too!!

chrissyg
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:46 pm

Re: Flights

Postby chrissyg » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:47 am

Second votes are just as democratic and when we actually know what we are voting for , i.e details of the deal/no deal it will be more so. To say it is to ' overthrow' the result is a bit immotive. Like a lot of people will vote Tory or Labour regardless of what they say or do, i agree it wont change their minds on this issue, but as it is such a big decision ( and it was a close call) just do it again.

Tim
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Re: Flights

Postby Tim » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:52 am

chrissyg wrote: as it is such a big decision ( and it was a close call) just do it again.


And what if it's a close call again? Have another vote, and another one, and another one ....

chrissyg
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Re: Flights

Postby chrissyg » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:54 am

And i can't even spell emotive so what do i know?? Lol
No, im not saying have another vote Just because it was close, it is just a factor.

evansmr1
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Re: Flights

Postby evansmr1 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:45 am

I am sick of reading, in this forum, that the majority of contributors seem to think that those of US who voted for exit from the corrupt EU club did not know what we were voting for. I believe that those of you (who seem to be a majority in Crete) did not understand the problems of remaining. Remain backers provided so much false information, grasping facts from the air, many of which have proved to be false, as it is also true for the exit brigade.

It appears from this forum and also from posts of well over a year ago that ALL remainers are thinking only of themselves. When I voted,via the postal system, I voted to leave in order that my Children and Grandchildren in the UK would have a better life away from the corrupt un-elected blotted EU.
I weighed up the pros and cons, using my own judgement as I am certain the majority of Leavers did.

As for remaining here after the UK leave, I cannot see any problem. The only one possibly being no annual increase in the State Pension. My Personal Pensions are safe, one in the UK and one that I have moved from the UK to a Pension Provided in the EU which pays Euros to my Greek Bank account. I have retained my two Banks in the UK to which other pensions are paid as are my share dividends. Me, I am not worried at all about the UK leaving the corrupt club. GET ON WITH IT MAY.
Mike
=============
Sic parvis magnaike

chrissyg
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:46 pm

Re: Flights

Postby chrissyg » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:27 am

We weren't given all the facts, only a lot of false ones, on both sides. But i do believe economists including Mark Carney who say it is the worst thing that we have done so i really cannot get how it is going to be better for your grandchildren, i too am thinking of my childrens future and their friends and colleagues. Our country is built on immigrants and i find the racist vote offensive and illogical and you cannot deny that immigration was a big factor in the vote.The best way to change problems in a club you are in is Within, we are still going to have to deal with Europe, and we will no longer have a say. I am only saying we will have more facts after the deal or no deal upon which to vote and that is democracy.

Kamisiana
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Re: Flights

Postby Kamisiana » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:49 am

Every prediction Mark Carney has made has been wrong. Cameron tried to make changes to Club EU that is how Brexit happened.


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