UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

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bobscott
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UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby bobscott » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:46 pm

Trying to find an answer to a problem which will affect many of us. We know about the implications for passports/visas etc for Brits travelling from UK to Europe, but what about those of us who have UK passports, and do inter-Schengen travel? For instance, I have UK passport (EU style current;ly). I travel from Greece to Italy. I present my passport at checkin in Greece, and apart from doing the same when I return, showing passport at checkin in Italy, that's it. However, if a UK passport is going to be a problem, how do we get around that? ECREU contact suggests we will be in same boat as those travelling from UK to Schengen countries, citing the need to have ETIAS documentation before we travel. True? Anyone got any info?
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Kilkis
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Kilkis » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:08 pm

Surely you don't need any form of passport for Inter-Schengen travel? Isn't that the point of Schengen? You do need an identity document to board the plane but I would have thought that a UK passport would serve that purpose? I would have thought that you would need ETIAS for travel between the UK and the Schengen area but it is quite possible that UK citizens would have needed ETIAS for that purpose even without Brexit, because the UK is not in Schengen. Not definitive information but my best guess.

Warwick

bobscott
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby bobscott » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:44 am

Thanks Warwick. Yes, the whole point of Schengen is exactly as you state. I just wondered if there is another 'unintended consequence' of Brexit which would lead to the requirement changing for a UK citizen entering an EU country. At the moment it doesn't pose a problem, but if things go off the rails................. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

scooby
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby scooby » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:59 pm

I am sure UK citizens will be informed of what ID etc they need to enter different countries and travel all in good time. No need to go into meltdown just yet :lol:
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Kilkis
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Kilkis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:29 pm

Oh yes. The UK government has a really good track record of doing everything in plenty of time. Caroline Nokes the Home Office Minister responsible for immigration made a statement a few days ago saying that after 29 March employers would have to carry out stringent checks to make sure an EU citizen was eligible to work in the UK before employing them, i.e. they were already resident and hadn't just arrived. That has now been contradicted by her boss Said Javid. A really key part of his statement is:

    "If there was a no-deal, we won't be able to immediately distinguish between those Europeans that were already here before March 29, and those who came after — and therefore as a result I wouldn't expect employers to do anything different than they do today."

As I have been saying for years the Home Office has no system at all for tracking who arrives, when they arrive, the purpose of their visit, how long they are staying and when they leave. Without such a system you cannot control migration whatever the law governing it says. If they had implemented such a system they would have been able to exercise better control under the existing EU rules and immigration would not have been such a big issue. This is not a party political statement. Labour did nothing, the Conservative-Liberal Coalition did nothing and the two following conservative governments did nothing including the one where Theresa May was in charge of the Home Office. The Home Office in general and the Border Force in particular are totally unfit for purpose and I can't see that changing any time soon.

Warwick

scooby
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby scooby » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:40 pm

I was just talking about travel as per the thread.
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Kilkis
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Kilkis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:34 pm

As was I. The government department responsible for ensuring travel works is the Home Office. I was simply pointing out that they are the most incompetent government department so your faith that "everything will be fine" might be misplaced.

Warwick

scooby
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby scooby » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:12 pm

Kilkis wrote:As was I. The government department responsible for ensuring travel works is the Home Office. I was simply pointing out that they are the most incompetent government department so your faith that "everything will be fine" might be misplaced.

Warwick
i don't think it's difficult regarding travel that's all, there are not that many different ways to be able to enter a country. It's like panic sets in before anything has been decided.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Kilkis
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Kilkis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:43 pm

I don't see any panic? I see a rational discussion on the impact of a no deal on travel. You seem to regard government as benign and competent, which quite surprises me. I regard all governments as intrinsically evil and generally incompetent.

Warwick

scooby
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby scooby » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:48 pm

Kilkis wrote:I don't see any panic? I see a rational discussion on the impact of a no deal on travel. You seem to regard government as benign and competent, which quite surprises me. I regard all governments as intrinsically evil and generally incompetent.

Warwick
there is already a thread with a link as to travel in the event of no deal, so people have already been informed. It's not difficult.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Kamisiana
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Kamisiana » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:18 pm

Kilkis wrote:I don't see any panic? I see a rational discussion on the impact of a no deal on travel. You seem to regard government as benign and competent, which quite surprises me. I regard all governments as intrinsically evil and generally incompetent.

Warwick


Can the European Union /commision be classed as a goverment yet, just wondering as evil and generally incompetent and only inerested in their self would fit the bill.

Kilkis
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Kilkis » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:19 am

scooby wrote:...there is already a thread with a link as to travel in the event of no deal, so people have already been informed. It's not difficult.


OK. So look at your current passport. What does it say on the front cover?

    European Union
    United Kingdom of
    Great Britain
    and Northern Ireland
    Passport

Suppose in the event of a no-deal Brexit the EU decides that it will no longer recognise such passports because the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is no longer part of the European Union so it is misleading or the UK no longer has the right to issue EU Passports. How long would it take the Passport Office to issue new passports to every single person that currently holds one or at least every person that wants to travel to the EU? The current government plan is based on issuing new passports when they become due for renewal. Can you refer me to the statement from the EU where it says that it will continue to recognise them in the event of a no-deal Brexit? Can you be 100 % sure that other countries will still recognise it when the UK is not part of the EU?

The UK has control over what the UK does but it has no control over what the EU or other countries decide to do. The USA, for example, is very picky about how you describe your country of origin on the green card you need to complete for entry. Will it be happy about your passport saying it is from the European Union when the UK is no longer a member? I don't know but I wouldn't bet on it. There are a lot of people in Parliament who say that if there is no deal the UK should walk away without paying a single penny. How do you think the EU are going to react to that?

What about everyday life. I am frequently asked to produce my passport as proof of ID. I was asked today. Will businesses still accept it as a proof of ID? I have no idea but there is no guarantee. I accept that none of this might happen but to simply say "everything will be OK" strikes me as naive.

Warwick

scooby
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby scooby » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:08 am

I think I will leave the debate as it gets neither party no further forward. I can't help it, I just don't get worried and worked up where as some run around like some soothsayer. Just an observation before I leave, to all the leavers, listen to the people who are desperate to remain (whatever their motives), listen to their quotes "cliff edge" "crash out" etc... Here is my thoughts, if there is no deal the UK goes to WTO rules, now, everyone knows what they are so can be prepared for (it might not be perfect but it's where we would be, deal with it) so if you know what you might be going into it is not the unknown, it is not a cliff edge and it is not a crash out. The melodramatic scenes I see and hear really are not worthy. Just an opinion and I won't get into further debate, I won't change my mind just like people who wish to remain won't change theirs.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Kilkis
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Kilkis » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:37 am

WTO rules only govern trade. Most people posting here are concerned about their rights as citizens. Will they have the right to remain where they live? Will they have the right to work? Will they have the right to own their home? Will they have the right to visit/relocate to other countries? Will they have the right to healthcare? Will they still receive their pensions? Everything will probably work out OK as you say BUT these are justifiable concerns. WTO rules say absolutely nothing about those issues at all. If the UK leaves with no deal we have no legal status whatsoever. It is exactly the unknown.

I am no soothsayer. I have no crystal ball. I have no idea what will happen but life has taught me to be cautious. I used to believe that if I put my money in a bank it was safe then I woke up one morning to find that my life savings had gone. That time I got them back very quickly. The next time it happened it took over six months. That experience has caused me not to simply assume everything will be OK but to think about how it could go wrong, how that would affect me and what I can do about it. To discus issues of concern with others who have similar concerns is not panicking.

Warwick

Voni
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Voni » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:53 pm

Arrangements for travel by UK Nationals in the EU is part of the Article 50 negotiations. As the UK is not a Schengen country it is not entitled to participate in proposals to address this issue.

You can find out more here:

https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... hed-16-17/


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