UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
bobscott
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby bobscott » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:00 pm

Voni wrote:Arrangements for travel by UK Nationals in the EU is part of the Article 50 negotiations. As the UK is not a Schengen country it is not entitled to participate in proposals to address this issue.

You can find out more here:

https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... hed-16-17/


Interesting and in some ways comforting in that the situation is being thought about. But the circumstances I outlined are not covered.

Imagine: I get on a plane in Chania to go to Rome. I have a permanent residency certificate issued by the Greek authorities. The check-in/passport control people look at my passport which is British. What do they do? Ask me for an ETIAS certificate (which will probably be in English so perhaps difficult to read)? OR: Ignore my nationality and just let me through as a bona fide Greek resident?

Which?

If I have applied for an ETIAS certificate and got one, what do I do with it in Rome? All of the other passengers on my plane will go through to the exit and on to the street? Will I be identified, hauled out of the crowd and sent to the immigration control before/after retrieving my luggage? OR: will I just be allowed to go with the flow and out on to the streets?

Ditto the same routine in reverse when I return from Rome to Greece?

ANSWER: No one has yet recognised the issue (Shades of the NI border but obviously not of the same magnitude!) and no-one knows the answer. Interesting times ahead. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Voni
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Voni » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:31 pm

You are absolutely right bob, at the moment no one knows the answer, no country has ever left the EU so there isn’t a precident on which to give a definitive answer.

The facts are that at the moment people from some non EU countries need a visa to allow travel to the Schengen Area.

The current visa requirements do state however that

“”You may be exempt from the airport transfer visa requirement if you hold a valid visa or residence permit issued by a Schengen State” *

It goes on to say

“Generally a short stay visa issued by one of the Schengen States entitles its holder to travel throughout the 26 Schengen States for up to 90 days in any 180 day period”

Referring to the previously referenced link depending on the outcome of the negotiations one of the other travel options may apply I.e.

A) no change to current arrangements or
B) visa free travel but required to fill in the online ETIAS form before travel. (European Travel Information and Authorisation System).

As regards border controls all non EU/EEA passengers are required to use the appropriate border entry channel, this will identify travellers fron non EU member states so the relevant entry requirements can be checked.

Personally I feel it will be a sad day when I return to my beloved Crete and have to enter as non European.

* everything I have read refers to a valid permanent resident permit - how the Greek temporary resident permit will be viewed is yet to be confirmed. Apologies for going slightly off thread.

Voni
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Voni » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:29 pm

Looks like a decision on visas for UK citizens travelling to the EU will be taken on 13th November.

Info and background here

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/post-b ... ext-month/

bobscott
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby bobscott » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:58 pm

Thanks Voni. Helpful and to a degree comforting. Just have to wait and see now. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Kilkis » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:05 pm

The EU has released its press release on preparedness and contingency work in the event of a no deal scenario in the Article 50 negotiations with the United Kingdom. It links to several other documents, one on Travelling between EU-UK and one specifically on Visa Requirements.

It has decided to not require UK citizens to obtain visas for short term travel, i.e. 90 days in any 180 day period, subject to the UK granting reciprocal rights to EU citizens visiting the UK. The UK has already said that it intends to do this so that should not be a hurdle. This is a Commission legislative proposal and so is also subject to gaining approval in the EU Parliament and the Council before passing into EU law. To enter the EU for such a short term visit the person would need a passport with a duration of not more than 10 years and at least 3 months remaining validity on the day they leave, i.e. six months remaining validity on the day of entry for a 3 month stay. Some current UK passports have a validity of more than 10 years, because you could apply up to 6 months before expiry and it would be issued with an expiry date 10 years from the original expiry date. Any such passports issued prior to the withdrawal date remain will valid travel documents. The UK intends to stop this procedure and future passports will have a duration of 10 years from the date of issue.

For people wishing to stay longer the situation is still not clear. The document states:

    for long stays, they will in principle require a residence permit or long stay visa issued by national authorities, under the national rules,

That seems to imply that each member state can have its own rules but I don't know that for sure. Also I have no idea what such rules might be for Greece. Perhaps someone who is a citizen of a third country, e.g. USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc, who lives in Greece long term, can tell us what rules apply to them and what the procedure is currently?

Warwick

scooby
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby scooby » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:36 pm

Kilkis wrote:The EU has released its press release on preparedness and contingency work in the event of a no deal scenario in the Article 50 negotiations with the United Kingdom. It links to several other documents, one on Travelling between EU-UK and one specifically on Visa Requirements.

It has decided to not require UK citizens to obtain visas for short term travel, i.e. 90 days in any 180 day period, subject to the UK granting reciprocal rights to EU citizens visiting the UK. The UK has already said that it intends to do this so that should not be a hurdle. This is a Commission legislative proposal and so is also subject to gaining approval in the EU Parliament and the Council before passing into EU law. To enter the EU for such a short term visit the person would need a passport with a duration of not more than 10 years and at least 3 months remaining validity on the day they leave, i.e. six months remaining validity on the day of entry for a 3 month stay. Some current UK passports have a validity of more than 10 years, because you could apply up to 6 months before expiry and it would be issued with an expiry date 10 years from the original expiry date. Any such passports issued prior to the withdrawal date remain will valid travel documents. The UK intends to stop this procedure and future passports will have a duration of 10 years from the date of issue.

For people wishing to stay longer the situation is still not clear. The document states:

    for long stays, they will in principle require a residence permit or long stay visa issued by national authorities, under the national rules,

That seems to imply that each member state can have its own rules but I don't know that for sure. Also I have no idea what such rules might be for Greece. Perhaps someone who is a citizen of a third country, e.g. USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc, who lives in Greece long term, can tell us what rules apply to them and what the procedure is currently?

Warwick
Very similar to now?
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Kilkis
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Re: UK PASSPORTS - INTER-SCHENGEN TRAVEL

Postby Kilkis » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:59 pm

Not really. At the moment UK citizens who want to stay longer than 90 days do so under a residence permit for EU citizens issued under the conditions laid down in an EU Directive. Under that system they can stay indefinitely provided they continue to satisfy the conditions laid down in the Directive. The permit is free or virtually free.

If the UK leaves with no deal, UK citizens will have to apply for the type of Visa/Residence permit issued to nationals of third countries and I believe that varies from country to country. In Greece typically it will mean an investment of €250,000 invested in property in Greece for permission to stay for five years. The visa can be renewed every 5 years provided the investment is still held, i.e. you don't need to invest a new €250,000 to renew at the end of the five years. You could sell that particular property provided that you buy other property worth at least €250,000. I am not sure how people, like me, who have invested in a property in Greece, but not to the tune of €250,000, who bring money into Greece each year and pay tax on my worldwide income in Greece would be treated. Would that be equivalent? What about people like Filippos who have invested in property in Greece but have since sold that property and now rent. Could they stay? Nobody knows.

Portugal have a similar arrangement but the minimum investment is €500,000 and it has to be renewed every 2 years. Cyprus actually grants citizenship but the minimum investment is €2 million, although that can be reduced to €500,000 after 3 years. In Spain the minimum investment is €500,000 and the visa is renewed every 2 years but after 5 years you can apply for a permanent one and after 10 you can apply for citizenship. Malta is very expensive requiring a €650,000 investment in the government development fund, €150,000 investment in an approved government financial instrument and a €350,000 investment in property plus additional €25,000 investments for each extra family member. Ireland does not require investment in property but you do have to invest €1 million in an Approved Investment Fund. As far as I am aware other EU countries do not have any such programmes but I don't know the detailed requirements for long term visas in each country.

I wouldn't describe these conditions as "very similar to now".

Warwick

PS I didn't include the UK above as people concerned with Brexit presumably have the right to go back and live in the UK if they choose to do so. For reference the UK requires a Tier 1 investment of £2 million pounds. That is an investment in government bonds or actively traded shares. It does not include property so you obviously also have the cost of somewhere to live on top of the investment. It can lead to permanent residency after 5 years.


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