The Will of the People

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
YoMo2
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby YoMo2 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:42 am

Philb wrote:Oh surprise, surprise. Announced today, Honda is going to close it's Swindon plant with the loss of 3,500 jobs. I wonder what's behind that decision?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47282603


As Warwick said, partly the new Japan-EU trade deal. Add to that the slump in Chinese demand, and depressed demand due to new diesel emissions regulations. But obviously you only want to blame Brexit.

I must say it's entertaining to read news stories like this and then to log on to LIC to see if you have posted yet to blame Brexit for the bad news.

Andrew

Philb
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Philb » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:35 am

YoMo2 wrote:
Philb wrote:Oh surprise, surprise. Announced today, Honda is going to close it's Swindon plant with the loss of 3,500 jobs. I wonder what's behind that decision?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47282603


As Warwick said, partly the new Japan-EU trade deal. Add to that the slump in Chinese demand, and depressed demand due to new diesel emissions regulations. But obviously you only want to blame Brexit.

I must say it's entertaining to read news stories like this and then to log on to LIC to see if you have posted yet to blame Brexit for the bad news.

Andrew


You can live in denial and rejoice in voting for Christmas. Gobble, gobble.

Warwick did use the words 'and brexit', so try to paraphrase accurately.

Philb
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Philb » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:32 am

Best summary of Brexit I've seen in a while

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HaBQfSAVt0s

YoMo2
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby YoMo2 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:36 am

Philb wrote:.............You can live in denial and rejoice in voting for Christmas. Gobble, gobble.


I'm not rejoicing about anything. Another unsubstantiated assumption on your part, just like your blaming Brexit for every business problem that comes along.

Philb wrote:Warwick did use the words 'and brexit', so try to paraphrase accurately.


That's why I said "partly". But don't worry. You just carry on fitting everything into your agenda, regardless of the facts.

I'm just curious as to why you think anyone is interested in your constant posting of every little news item that can somehow be blamed on Brexit. It's actually becoming quite boring.

Andrew

Philb
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Philb » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:44 am

YoMo2 wrote:
Philb wrote:.............You can live in denial and rejoice in voting for Christmas. Gobble, gobble.


I'm not rejoicing about anything. Another unsubstantiated assumption on your part, just like your blaming Brexit for every business problem that comes along.

Philb wrote:Warwick did use the words 'and brexit', so try to paraphrase accurately.


That's why I said "partly". But don't worry. You just carry on fitting everything into your agenda, regardless of the facts.

I'm just curious as to why you think anyone is interested in your constant posting of every little news item that can somehow be blamed on Brexit. It's actually becoming quite boring.

Andrew


I find tedious denials of reality, like yours quite boring.

Tim
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Tim » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:07 pm

Perhaps you should have waited, Philb, until the announcement had been formally made.

Honda Motor president Takahiro Hachigo:

"This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about. "We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to.

They are also closing a production plant in Turkey - not even in the EU.

Tim

Maud
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Maud » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:32 pm

It is sad for Swindon,- whatever the reason. It certainly doesn’t help people in the U.K. when there are so many jobs being lost because of Brexit....even if it isn’t the case here.

One thing it does show, is that job losses will happen with or without Brexit. We should therefore not be compounding matters by all the uncertainty around Brexit, - which is already driving more firm to relocate away from the U.K.

Employment might be at a record high today, but where are we going to be in a year or twos time? For some people whose jobs are at risk, they will no longer see the benefits of Brexit if they are out of work......with or without the B word. The job losses are already happening, so this is not ‘fake news’ or ‘project fear.’

Please spare a thought for all those families who are going to face the difficulty of soon having to manage without a wage coming in to the home.

Philb
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Philb » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:05 pm

Tim wrote:Perhaps you should have waited, Philb, until the announcement had been formally made.

Honda Motor president Takahiro Hachigo:

"This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about. "We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to.

They are also closing a production plant in Turkey - not even in the EU.

Tim


Other commentators disagree. I take that quote with a large pinch of salt.

Tim
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Tim » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:09 pm

Philb wrote: I take that quote with a large pinch of salt.


Of course you do. It doesn't correspond with your agenda. :wink:

Tim

Kilkis
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:30 pm

I don't think you can describe the president of Honda as a "commentator", Phil? He is stating the official Honda position so it is not an opinion to be debated.

It is clear that changes in the UK economy would have occurred whether the UK remained in the EU or not. In some cases Brexit will not have influenced the decision in any way. In some cases Brexit will be a factor in the decision making but it is impossible to know if the decision would have been different in the absence of Brexit. In some cases Brexit will be a key driver. Whatever our views on Brexit, leave or remain we still need to be rational. There seems to be a tendency on the remain side to attribute everything negative that happens to Brexit. Conversely on the leave side Brexit has had no negative impact at all, everything is due to "other" factors. Neither position is rational.

I worked in the motor industry for a number of years. I was middle management in a major, independent, automotive R&D company so I did work for a large number of motor companies both in the UK and abroad. I served on SMMT committees and have visited major manufacturers in the USA, Japan, Sweden and Russia so I have some knowledge about how decisions are made in this sector. They are highly complex and cannot be boiled down to one issue. I would expect gradual attrition in the UK automotive sector over a number of years. Some of it would probably have happened anyway. Some of it will be strongly influenced by being outside the EU especially in the case of a no deal. In all cases it will be difficult to distinguish which is which.

Warwick

Mackie
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Someone sent me this positive news

Postby Mackie » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:38 pm

https://www.mfa.gr/epikairotita/dilosei ... 22019.html

Apologies if it has been posted before as I am not on the net much these days

Kilkis
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:00 pm

Excellent document, Mackie, thanks for posting it. It basically urges the UK to ratify the Withdrawal Agreement as the best solution but in the case that is not possible the closing paragraphs state:

    Allow me to assure you that the British citizens already living in Greece are welcomed and enjoyed our appreciation and are a major bridge of friendship between our two countries. Their rights will be recognized and fully safeguarded in accordance with the reciprocity offered by the UK to EU citizens. Our state agencies are working without delay on drafting fast track bills that will be voted in due time before March 29, 2019 and will enable British citizens and members of their families already living in Greece prior to the date of withdrawal (29 March 2019) to remain in the country and continue to live, study and work, and receive social security benefits and health care. As far as the latter is concerned, the purpose of the proposed EU regulation is to draw up a contingency plan in the event of failure to reach agreement, in particular on the co-ordination of social security systems following UK withdrawal.

    The aim of our national bills is also to provide for the categories of citizens who will arrive in Greece after the date of departure (29.3.2019). I have already consulted my colleagues, the competent ministers, and I intend to make a public announcement soon. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs, in close co-ordination with all other government agencies and agencies, remains at the disposal of the British Embassy in Athens and your government departments.

    I look forward to continuing and strengthening our excellent cooperation in the various areas that link our two countries and I hope to meet in the near future.

Sounds very positive. It is also about the first time I've seen any government or EU body mention the rights of citizens who arrive after withdrawal. The fact that people will still move from country to country seems to have been completely ignored.

Warwick

PS I would interpret "in due time before March 29, 2019" to mean 28 March 2019.

bobscott
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby bobscott » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:27 pm

At last - some information and very welcome too. Thanks Mackie. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Philb
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Philb » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:57 pm

Kilkis wrote:I don't think you can describe the president of Honda as a "commentator", Phil? He is stating the official Honda position so it is not an opinion to be debated.


Not quite what I meant to imply, I was referring to media, not his statement.

George
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby George » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:28 pm

If you run Honda and are currently selling 150,000 cars in the EU and 2 million in China and the USA which market will you go to for your next generation of electric vehicles?


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