The Will of the People

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
Toebs
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Toebs » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:21 pm

Kilkis wrote:Admittedly a second order effect but not one I have heard discussed much.


The impact will be fabulously more complex and subtle than anyone can perceive ahead of time. The systems involved are far, far, far, far, FAR, *FAR* more complex than we understand.

Speaking a free marketeer, all of this is insanity. If a man wishes to trade with another man, it's their business. Where they come from and what they trade and at what prices is nothing to do with any State whatsoever, except in self-defence.

I may be wrong, but I think the EU behaves like any another States, controlling trade. However, any single State typically offers freedom to trade within its borders (which is a fairly new thing - a few hundred years ago, each country in Europe was riven with internal barriers to trade - local import duties, regulations, tariffs, etc) and so the EU differs quantititively, by being so large, it offer a large area where trade *is* more like it should be (even while the EU continues to fend off businesses from outside the EU - which, ho ho ho, in the event of Brexit means us :-)

I have the vague impression some of the Brexitiers are taking their line from free market principles. It is a thorny choice. Do you aspire to something which is impossible (the UK certainly isn't going to change it's behviour because it leaves the EU - it will be like any other country, only now just the UK rather than in the "one large country" of the EU) or do you stick with the EU, which like the UK does all sorts of things which are ethically and economically wrong, because it is the least worst deal on the table?
Last edited by Toebs on Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Toebs
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Toebs » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:54 pm

Guy M wrote:https://www.politico.eu/article/how-uk-lost-brexit-eu-negotiation/

“Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden stop,” read the official Brexit campaign’s prospectus — endorsed by two of the political leaders of the campaign, then Justice Secretary Michael Gove and the former mayor of London, Boris Johnson. “We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave.”


It seems like they claimed something would happen which in fact was outside of their power to deliver.

It is indeed the case the terms should have been negotiated before the exit process began. I think this is by now widely understood.

I may be wrong, I didn't read it very closely, but the rest of the article seems empty. It's just a description of what happened, where the EU knew what leaving meant and the UK did not.

Kilkis
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:31 pm

Throughout the campaign leading up to the referendum, the referendum itself and all negotiations since, the UK has completely ignored the fact that there are two dogs in this fight. Every idea and every debate is predicated solely on what the UK wants. Everybody involved knew in advance exactly what the EU wanted, because it is laid down in EU law, but they still went ahead ignoring it.

I live my life on the basis of control whatever I can and deal with whatever I can't. There is a simple lesson in that for government.

Warwick

Sinkingslowly
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 6:48 pm
Location: Makry Gialos

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Sinkingslowly » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:22 pm

I don't know if this has been referenced anywhere before but it helps to explain "The Will of the People".
It's also good for a laugh on a rainy day.

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/12/ ... rite-here/

Toebs
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Toebs » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:57 pm

Phew.

MV2.5 rejected by 58 votes.

Next up, Monday's indicative votes.

I guess the push is on for a majority for a single option which is customs union plus confirmatory referendum and I think it will happen.

Then we have to see what the Govenment makes of it. Hopefully TM heads off to the EU and gets the long extension to allow time for the referendum. They all say yes, and the - pray God - we get a three option referendum : no deal, customs union, in.

I emailed my MP got a reply (a one liner of course) from him personally, which was nice. He voted CU the first time. I encouraged him to also vote for the confirmatory referendum.

Kilkis
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:12 pm

Sinkingslowly wrote:I don't know if this has been referenced anywhere before but it helps to explain "The Will of the People".
It's also good for a laugh on a rainy day.

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/12/ ... rite-here/


What totally surprised me is that virtually all these stories were printed by the Express, the Mail, the Sun and the Telegraph. I would never have expected that? Admittedly the Times printed 10 but other papers tended to print the odd one. Given our completely unbiased print media you would have expected such stories to have been printed more evenly? Obviously these reports had no influence whatsoever because leave voters know exactly what they voted for as they tell us many times. Strangely, when they are telling us, they often quote these stories. Odd.

Warwick

Sinkingslowly
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 6:48 pm
Location: Makry Gialos

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Sinkingslowly » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:36 pm

Kilkis wrote:
Sinkingslowly wrote:I don't know if this has been referenced anywhere before but it helps to explain "The Will of the People".
It's also good for a laugh on a rainy day.

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/12/ ... rite-here/


What totally surprised me is that virtually all these stories were printed by the Express, the Mail, the Sun and the Telegraph. I would never have expected that? Admittedly the Times printed 10 but other papers tended to print the odd one. Given our completely unbiased print media you would have expected such stories to have been printed more evenly? Obviously these reports had no influence whatsoever because leave voters know exactly what they voted for as they tell us many times. Strangely, when they are telling us, they often quote these stories. Odd.

Warwick


I'm sure it's just a coincidence ! :D

Toebs
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Toebs » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:38 pm

Hmm.

Interesting.

Leave rally today.

Thousands of supporters.

Of course, the Remain rally being in London, which ia huge and so strongly 'in', found it far easier to have large numbers of people attend.
Last edited by Toebs on Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Toebs
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:42 pm

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Toebs » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:44 pm

From the BBC;

The prime minister's official spokesman says ministers will continue to talk to the DUP about further reassurances over the Northern Ireland backstop.

"What the prime minister wants is to secure a deal that allows us to leave as soon as possible. She is going to continue to press for that," the spokesman says.


I may be wrong, but I feel there comes a point where a strength of will to pursue something in the face of adversity becomes in fact an actual inability to accept failure, and by that an equal inability to move on from a failed approach to try to find a successful approach.

In other news, TIG look like they're forming a new party now? I think I will send them a bit of money - the Labour vote needs to be split to ensure the Cons stay in power! ;-)

Kamisiana
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kamisiana » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:12 pm

Looking on the bright side most people on this forum will be able to have a cremation in Crete before Brexit is sorted :twisted:

scooby

Re: The Will of the People

Postby scooby » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:22 pm

I only live in a very small town yet there was a pro brexit march, so I can only imagine what it was like in other larger towns.

Mixos
Posts: 486
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:26 am
Location: North East Crete or S.W.England

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Mixos » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:42 pm

What, they had a pro-Brexit march in Agia ?

scooby

Re: The Will of the People

Postby scooby » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:22 pm

Mixos wrote:What, they had a pro-Brexit march in Agia ?

Ha ha, yes I ought to change my location!

Guy M
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Guy M » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:35 pm

scooby wrote:I only live in a very small town yet there was a pro brexit march, so I can only imagine what it was like in other larger towns.


Well I live in a large, rich town full of middle class graduates, Michelin star restaurants and a famous public school. The only marching likely to go on here is if the quinoa (whatever that is) runs out in the local delicatessen. I did see someone running once but I think that was because they wanted to get to John Lewis before it closed.

Kilkis
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:55 am

Toebs wrote:...I may be wrong, but I feel there comes a point where a strength of will to pursue something in the face of adversity becomes in fact an actual inability to accept failure, and by that an equal inability to move on from a failed approach to try to find a successful approach...


I wonder how many times she checks if she has turned the cooker off/locked the door before leaving the house? I bet she has to tap the back of her left hand three times with two fingers of her right hand, twice with three fingers and three times with two fingers and then repeat with the left hand but the number of fingers reversed before she gets up to speak.

Toebs wrote:...In other news, TIG look like they're forming a new party now? I think I will send them a bit of money - the Labour vote needs to be split to ensure the Cons stay in power! ;-)


They claim that they didn't really want to form a party yet but, with the possibility of elections to the EU parliament becoming more likely, they needed to register so they could field official candidates.

Warwick


Return to “Brexit and Living in Greece”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests