The Will of the People

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
bobscott
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby bobscott » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:01 pm

You are right Mixos. Because UK is 'extra-Schengen' arrivals in Greece (or anywhere else in Europe for that matter) go through a separate channel already and I see no reason why that would change. Flying intra-Schengen (e.g. Greece to Belgium) is where the problems may arise for UK passport holders as the rest of the plane won't even go through immigration controls. But according to the pundits, the Brits should. How are they going to work that one I wonder (see my earlier post). Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

BST
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby BST » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:41 pm

Yes I was told by passport control man at Chania that things would be more complicated and there would be more controls in the future. He had a very grim expression. That was flying from Chania to Paphos. We were just about the only nonGreek/Cypriots on the flight.

Carolina
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Carolina » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:48 pm

bobscott wrote:Flying intra-Schengen (e.g. Greece to Belgium) is where the problems may arise for UK passport holders as the rest of the plane won't even go through immigration controls. But according to the pundits, the Brits should. How are they going to work that one I wonder (see my earlier post). Bob.


Once you have entered a Schengen area there are no passport controls until you leave a Schengen area country again. So travelling inter- Schengen there are no passport controls/immigration for any passengers at all e.g. Greece to Belgium or Greece to France, Spain etc.

Cyprus is not part of Schengen, as the UK is not, hence passport controls on entering/leaving those countries.

Kilkis
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:59 pm

There is quite a lot of talk at the moment that there is not a majority in parliament for a no-deal Brexit. I don't understand this concept at all? The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 gained Royal Assent on 26 June 2018. It is an Act of Parliament already. Under the terms of that Act, as far as I am aware, the UK will leave the EU on 29 March 2019. Parliament has three choices:

    1 It could vote to rescind this act in which case the UK would stay in the EU. There is probably a majority in parliament who would like to do this but won't because of the consequences, i.e. their leave voting constituents would probably kick them out or possibly worse.
    2 It could vote for the deal on offer. While it is not certain, all the comments being made suggest that there is no majority to support this.
    3 It could vote to extend the Article 50 period, either to allow further negotiation on the deal or to hold a second referendum. I don't think renegotiation or holding a second referendum would be possible within the remaining timescale. An extension is only possible with the agreement of the EU. I would guess that if they thought that it might lead to the UK staying in the EU they would grant an extension but if they thought that it would be used to obtain a different deal that was more favourable to the UK and less favourable to the EU they would probably refuse the extension.

If parliament does not execute one of these choices, or something else that a majority can agree on, then the UK will leave the EU on 29 March without a deal. No majority in parliament is needed. Unless something is done to stop it, it will happen as surely as night follows day.

Warwick

scooby

Re: The Will of the People

Postby scooby » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:46 pm

Kilkis wrote:There is quite a lot of talk at the moment that there is not a majority in parliament for a no-deal Brexit. I don't understand this concept at all? The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 gained Royal Assent on 26 June 2018. It is an Act of Parliament already. Under the terms of that Act, as far as I am aware, the UK will leave the EU on 29 March 2019. Parliament has three choices:

    1 It could vote to rescind this act in which case the UK would stay in the EU. There is probably a majority in parliament who would like to do this but won't because of the consequences, i.e. their leave voting constituents would probably kick them out or possibly worse.
    2 It could vote for the deal on offer. While it is not certain, all the comments being made suggest that there is no majority to support this.
    3 It could vote to extend the Article 50 period, either to allow further negotiation on the deal or to hold a second referendum. I don't think renegotiation or holding a second referendum would be possible within the remaining timescale. An extension is only possible with the agreement of the EU. I would guess that if they thought that it might lead to the UK staying in the EU they would grant an extension but if they thought that it would be used to obtain a different deal that was more favourable to the UK and less favourable to the EU they would probably refuse the extension.

If parliament does not execute one of these choices, or something else that a majority can agree on, then the UK will leave the EU on 29 March without a deal. No majority in parliament is needed. Unless something is done to stop it, it will happen as surely as night follows day.

Warwick

The mog said this morning the government will need to double it's efforts in preparation for no deal scenario. I believe if it was the case we were heading for no deal, the EU would blink first. That is just my opinion.

Kilkis
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:18 pm

Unless they are emulating the DUP. A DUP source, commenting on whether the DUP would support the government on the draft agreement last December, said, "It's a game of who blinks first and we've cut off our eyelids!"

Warwick

Guy M
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Guy M » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:51 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... SApp_Other

This is what an expert in these things says may or may not happen.

Kilkis
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:23 am

A pretty good discussion of the various possibilities. I think the headline reflects the Grauniad's editorial position rather than the content of the article. I don't think the article really says what is most likely to happen simply what could happen.

Warwick

Maud
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Maud » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:17 am

Our ‘special relationship’ with D Trump did not last long! I wonder how Mrs.May and her advisors are going to ‘gloss over’ that one?

On top of that the public are being treated like idiots again. For months there has been little talk of immigration. - It has all been about trade, Ireland etc. Even last week comments were being made about how little immigration has been mentioned.....yet suddenly T May is on her charm offensive telling the British public how her deal will ‘deliver on Brexit’ and how it will give them what they voted for with regard to immigration. - There is no mention of what it WON’T give them! - Of course...,that is just good script writing by her team!

We have almost gone full circle in giving the public what many of them (especially people who voted for Brexit), want to hear! I am beginning to dispair of the whole matter! All TM is doing is hoping ‘Joe Public’ will support her and put pressure on their MP’s to do the same. She basically has no other options left..,,,apart from the one mentioned in the Guardian, which she is absolutely against.

I believe her possible tv appearance to debate against J Corbyn is only a ‘distraction.’ I think she always seems to come out on top in any parliamentary debate, as she appears to be quicker thinking than him ‘off script’ so such a tv debate would work in her favour. At the moment she is desperate to get her ‘selective’ views over the british public in any way possible! Only the vote in Parliament will tell us how influential this ‘charm offensive’ pans out!

What a state we are in!

Kamisiana
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kamisiana » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:39 pm

And the stunt the Spanish tried to pull over Gibraltar that was even slapped down by Brussles, the Spanish even have their own disputed port and military base in Ceuta Morroco within sight of Gibralter where Russian warships regulary refual and replenish how does that work as they are a NATO country with France calling for an EU army to defend against the US and Russia total hippocracy.
And as for the obnoxious Macron trying to make himself look good in France where his popularity is down to 21% by blackmailing the UK over Fishing rights for a good trade deal is a another good reason to leave the EU and give more fuel for the Brexit campaign.

Kilkis
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:54 pm

I think the Trumpster has the attention span of a goldfish. He simply spouts what someone said to him most recently. If it was more than 5 minutes ago he will have forgotten it. He can't have actually read any of the withdrawal documents because they don't have his name in them anywhere and his aids have found that the only way to get him to read any document was to sprinkle it liberally with his name. It is unheard of in America for Senators or Representatives to read Bills. They just check the paragraph that gives them their particular boondoggle and as long as that's there they vote for it.

I'm not sure either of them come out on top in parliamentary debates. May hesitates and changes her wording so often it makes her look like she doesn't know what she is talking about. Corbyn is so dull you just want it to end. Each exchange seems to take the format of Corbyn saying that service X is in a mess because the government has cut funding to that service by £Y and May saying that they are spending more on service X than labour spent on it. The vast majority of people have no idea so just believe the one whose camp they are in. When it comes to politics people's eyesight seems to be black and white. Being able to detect shades of grey is becoming an ever rarer talent.

Warwick

Kamisiana
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kamisiana » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:05 pm

[quote="Kilkis"] When it comes to politics people's eyesight seems to be black and white. Being able to detect shades of grey is becoming an ever rarer talent.

Well it certainly is there in black and white the EU has sanctions against Russia, and Spain refuels there warships,
the only grey bit is Spain says there naval port in Ceuta in Morocco and is in Africa the US are not happy and NATO is
less happy its the old double standards from Europe again.

bobscott
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby bobscott » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:13 pm

Carolina wrote:
bobscott wrote:Flying intra-Schengen (e.g. Greece to Belgium) is where the problems may arise for UK passport holders as the rest of the plane won't even go through immigration controls. But according to the pundits, the Brits should. How are they going to work that one I wonder (see my earlier post). Bob.


Once you have entered a Schengen area there are no passport controls until you leave a Schengen area country again. So travelling inter- Schengen there are no passport controls/immigration for any passengers at all e.g. Greece to Belgium or Greece to France, Spain etc.

Cyprus is not part of Schengen, as the UK is not, hence passport controls on entering/leaving those countries.


You are quite right Carol. That is what happens now. However, I am concerned about what might happen if there is a no-deal; how will Schengen countries (and the EU) cope with members of a 3rd country having the right to travel freely amongst them? Some bright spark somewhere will put a stop to that once they realise it's happening! Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kilkis » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:02 pm

If there is no deal then we will be treated like any other third country, Bob. We won't have any more or less freedom than them.

Like most countries in the world the EU makes judgements about who it regards as friendly and who it regards as not friendly. Those in countries that are judged friendly do not need a Visa to enter the EU, those that are judged not friendly do need a Visa. The EU regard the UK as friendly, even in the event of a no deal, so we shouldn't need a Visa, although it wouldn't surprise me if at some point we were included in the ETIAS system, which is scheduled to be operational by about 2020. It doesn't matter which group you are in, the check on whether you need/have a Visa only applies when you enter and leave the Schengen area. Wherever you come from, once you have entered the Schengen area you are free to move anywhere within it.

In theory a no-deal could have resulted in UK citizens needing a Visa but the EU have decided not to require this. What is still uncertain is what happens to long-term residents in the event of a no-deal and that may vary from country to country. It is also still not clear in many (most?) EU countries what the process will be to exchange the EU Residence Certificate for a different Residence Certificate in the event of the terms currently in the withdrawal agreement being implemented.

My comment wasn't in reply to your post on Spanish refuelling of Russian ships, Kamisiana. It was a general comment on the way everything in the political sphere is viewed.

Warwick

Kamisiana
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Re: The Will of the People

Postby Kamisiana » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:38 pm

Yes I know it was not a reply to my post Warwick I just wanted to point out Spains dirty little secret as not many people do seem to know about it they are just happy to bash the UK.


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