A serious Question

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Mackie
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:08 pm
Location: Cheshire / Hersonissos

A serious Question

Postby Mackie » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:44 pm

How best can we prepare for the high probability of a no deal Brexit?
There is no way we would give up on our dream of living in Crete now that we finally got our home right and are much happier living here.
We are not of retirement age and still pay tax heavily in the UK (we can easily change that to Greece if its what we have to do). Most of my part time / as needed basis consultancy work comes from overseas anyway.
We are very keen on hearing what people think and how you are personally preparing for a “No Deal Brixit”.
Aperciate your input as always
Mackie

Phild
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:01 pm
Location: Way out West

Re: A serious Question

Postby Phild » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:10 pm

A serious question deserves a serious answer.

But unfortunately we don't know the parameters of Brexit yet, so whatever preparations we make, we can't know for sure if they have been worth it. Sadly, it looks like the only real way of assessing the worth of those preparations will be in hindsight.

Realistically, we can only follow the government guidelines from the UK (since it appears that Greece isn't addressing the problem yet - one can only assume that they will only address it when they know what might be happening)

I'm not too sure that a no deal Brexit is at a high probability yet - the posturing and brinkmanship of politicians is well-known, after all.

Personally, we are also not of retirement age yet, so we have made the following preparations:

  • We have the residency permits that we are entitled to (blue, in our case)
  • We are up-to-date with our accountant and the tax authority, although we pay tax in the UK (I'm of the opinion that tax should be paid in the jurisdiction in which the income is earned)
  • We have tried to change our driving licenses for Greek ones, but have only just changed out residency permits, so may not be able to change in time (assuming a 'no deal')
  • We've transferred enough money to see us through a few months after March 29th.
  • We are assessing whether it is a good idea to apply for Greek citizenship (is it achievable, given language abilities, etc)

...and that's all I think we can be expected to do, given our lack of knowledge at the moment.

Hope this helps.
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Phil
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bobscott
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: A serious Question

Postby bobscott » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:45 pm

As Phild rightly says, until we know the parameters of the situation nothing is known for certain.
We are pensioners, so have a somewhat different take on the whole business. As to preparations, we factored in BREXIT in a decision to sell our house (built some time after we came here 21 years ago) so as not to be part of a long queue of people who might be wanting to sell prior to returning to the UK. Now in rented accommodation again! We have had Greek driving licences for some time now, and residency (blue) permits. We pay tax in the UK where all of our (pension) income arises and are up-to-date with the paperwork from here.

Biggest concern like most others is the reciprocal healthcare arrangements. Can only keep fingers crossed. You don't say if you have property in the UK. We don't. We are not intending to leave Crete, whatever the outcome but may, of course, be forced to do that.

Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

GlennB
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Arkadia, Peloponnese

Re: A serious Question

Postby GlennB » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:53 pm

We've been 'tidying up' furiously for a couple of years now.

- Hassling endlessly to get the house legalisation finished
- Getting the blue residence permit
- Making a start on the cadastral survey business
- Getting Greek driving licences (just submitted the final paperwork today)

and probably other stuff that doesn't spring to mind.

Being able to sell the house if push comes to shove is a real worry though, let alone the misery of uprooting and finding somewhere to live in England.

Carolina
Site Admin
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Re: A serious Question

Postby Carolina » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:04 pm

Mackie wrote:How best can we prepare for the high probability of a no deal Brexit?
There is no way we would give up on our dream of living in Crete now that we finally got our home right and are much happier living here.
We are not of retirement age and still pay tax heavily in the UK (we can easily change that to Greece if its what we have to do). Most of my part time / as needed basis consultancy work comes from overseas anyway.
We are very keen on hearing what people think and how you are personally preparing for a “No Deal Brixit”.
Aperciate your input as always
Mackie


Do you have Registration Certificates? That is the first most important thing to do right now. http://www.livingincrete.net/ResidencePermit.html

Kilkis
Posts: 10965
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: A serious Question

Postby Kilkis » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:09 pm

It is impossible to plan for a no-deal outcome. In that case we are totally reliant on the UK negotiating a bilateral reciprocal agreement with Greece. We have no idea if such a deal would be possible, although the UK Embassy believes it has a good chance, or what any such deal would contain. Phild's advice is sound for the case of any deal that includes the December 2017 Protocol so is worth doing and might help in the case of a bilateral agreement. It cannot do any harm.

Phild wrote:...(I'm of the opinion that tax should be paid in the jurisdiction in which the income is earned)...


Unfortunately your opinion, or my opinion for that matter, is not very important. Governments throughout the world believe you should pay income tax where you are tax resident and most base that on where you live for most of the year. If you were a Greek, with income in Greece, living more than 183 days per year in the UK, HMRC would regard you as tax resident in the UK and, depending on the source of the income, would expect you to pay income tax in the UK. The only exception to that rule would be income sources that are explicitly defined in the Double Taxation Agreement as remaining liable for tax in the country where the income arises.

Warwick

Mackie
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:08 pm
Location: Cheshire / Hersonissos

Re: A serious Question

Postby Mackie » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:51 pm

Thanks lady and Gents, great input as usual.
Taxation like Warwick says is a complicated issue. Some countries (US as an example), withhold tax on behalf of the UK and others where it’s tax free (ME region) has to be taxed by the UK as we are still UK tax residents.
We had the residence certificate done recently based on advice from you good people, have now got AMKA no just Incase, the house is legal and we have all the docs and certificates but we still to register it within the countrywide system when we are asked to (we live in Hersonissos and don’t believe it’s due yet).
We can’t do anything yet about the driving license as we need to wait 180 days or 95 days after obtaining the residence certificate (depending on who you ask). We carry IDP all the time in any case (it only costs £5.50) so we are ok driving for now.
Both boys have left home in the UK now (in body only) but most of their stuff still in the house so we still have a home in the UK and would like to sell it or rent it soon once we are more organised.
We have private health insurance for 2 more months (from my previous employer before I resigned - still valid till end of March). This is an area where we are concerned about and some of the quotes I have seen on line are very scary. Far too expensive than what I thought.
We have to do something about health cover, whatever the Brexit outcome is!

Guy M
Posts: 435
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: A serious Question

Postby Guy M » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:17 pm

We got private health insurance as a family with two young children (6 and 8 at the time) when we had a year homeschooling our children in Crete in 2013. Even with non-fancy cover, it was quite expensive - and as an over 50 years old person, I had to go through some funny medical checkups that were the source of great ridicule to the rest of my family. Was it worth it? Well, we never needed to claim anything, but I had blown my previous employers’ health insurance (in Kenya) by having a year off work after nearly being killed in a car crash so worth it for peace of mind.

Mackie
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:08 pm
Location: Cheshire / Hersonissos

Re: A serious Question

Postby Mackie » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:27 pm

We are both 53 years old. Do we have to go through tests even if we can get medical history from our GP?

Any idea of current costs for a couple of our age? Emailed a few people for quotes and waiting to hear!

Guy M
Posts: 435
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: A serious Question

Postby Guy M » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:10 pm

Hi. I have no idea of costs now - as a,ways it’s worth shopping around, and it does depend on what the level of cover is and what exemptions and excesses there are. We only had Kenyan records (and I had a medical history as long as your arm) - not sure what would happen with U.K. records but honestly, the tests were funny rather than seriously testing - blood pressure, heart rate, blood test, that sort of thing. The insurance broker we went through arranged it all so, like much in Crete, it was a charming, low pressure experience.

Guy M
Posts: 435
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: A serious Question

Postby Guy M » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:12 pm

PS The best preparation for a No Deal Brexit is to do what my wife and daughters have done - they got dual Irish British citizenship as soon as the Referendum results were announced.

GlennB
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Arkadia, Peloponnese

Re: A serious Question

Postby GlennB » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:16 pm

Guy M wrote:PS The best preparation for a No Deal Brexit is to do what my wife and daughters have done - they got dual Irish British citizenship as soon as the Referendum results were announced.


Nice if you qualify.

Guy M
Posts: 435
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: A serious Question

Postby Guy M » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:50 pm

GlennB wrote:
Guy M wrote:PS The best preparation for a No Deal Brexit is to do what my wife and daughters have done - they got dual Irish British citizenship as soon as the Referendum results were announced.


Nice if you qualify.


Be assured they let me know how nice it is each time we pass through immigration - and that’s before Brexit.

Keltz
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:53 am

Re: A serious Question

Postby Keltz » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:46 am

It's good to hear what others are doing but as we know it involves a lot of guesswork.

The biggest issues we face I think is with healthcare and currency both of which right now we have no idea what will happen and will have to deal with the outcome at the time, both on 29th March or any extension date to article 50. Fair to say I will be avoiding currency conversion around that time and keep a buffer of Euros.

Best estimates of Brexit on UK economy is negative with potential for medium to long term drop in sterling affecting income from the UK including state pension possibility that annual increases may not be applied in line with expats living in other non-eu countries. There is of course nothing we can do about that as we voted for Brexit.

HMRC tax I have found not an issue as they seem more than happy to continue taking my tax directly at source while sending my annual tax return to my home address in Crete. How long this will last is anybody's guess.

Looks like we will have a bit of time to sort out getting a Greek driving license if you can get an IDP 1968 which lasts a year.

I think the best advice I have received and information from this site, is to ensure all Greek paperwork is in order and then deal with what actually happens when it happens 'σιγά σιγά'.

BST
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:29 pm

Re: A serious Question

Postby BST » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:31 am

IF reciprocal healthcare/EHICS are withdrawn, this is a huge problem. For full health insurance even in a public hospital, the costs are astronomical! You can say goodbye to a couple of thousand euros a year for 2 people over 60. If anyone has found a much cheaper option then please let us know but we have looked in to several providers in Greece and based outside Greece.


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