Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
Carolina
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Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Carolina » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:55 pm

It is now quite clear (grrrrr) that any Brexit deal is going to end Freedom of Movement, unless some miracle happens.

IF your travel overlaps the 29th March 2019 (or even just from now on) you should TAKE your Registration or Residence Certificate WITH YOU when you travel IN CASE we leave without a transition deal. It should exempt you from the 90 day/180 day Schengen rule * which will likely be imposed on Brits in a no deal scenario.

Just had an interesting conversation with my daughter who works at local Greek airport, check in and departures for Aegean and other International airlines. For third country nationals (which we will become on 30th March IF there is no transition deal), they check passports (for international departures including transfers via ATH) and if they have no Schengen arrival stamp they can ask to see a residence permit before allowing boarding. Also if there is a Schengen stamp but it is out of date (i.e. overstayed) they can also deny boarding.

Ok, this probably won’t apply to British citizens departing Greece to begin with as we entered Greece under our Freedom of Movement, but it will likely be enforced at some time, with or without a deal, as Theresa May’s Brexit deal involves stopping our Freedom of Movement.

When you ENTER any (first) Schengan country as a third country national (visa exempt) you receive a Schengan stamp in your passport, valid for 90 days. If you hold a residence certificate or permit (e.g. for Greece) your passport doesn't get stamped on arrival (in Greece) when you show the residence certificate along with your passport on border entry, as you have right to reside in that country beyond the 90 days.

• If you don’t have a residence certificate/permit and are a non-EU/EEA/Swiss national (even if you are visa-exempt), make sure that your passport is clearly stamped both when you enter and leave the Schengen Area with all the pertinent dates visible. Without an entry stamp, you may be treated as an overstayer when you try to leave the Schengen Area; without an exit stamp, you may be refused entry the next time you seek to enter the Schengen Area as you may be deemed to have overstayed on your previous visit too.

IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT A REGISTRATION OR RESIDENCE CERTIFICATE PLEASE GET ONE NOW.

Carolina
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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Carolina » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:35 pm

Literally just received an email update from UK Gov on this very Schengen topic right after I post the above

SEE https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advic ... quirements

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Tim » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:37 pm

Hi Carol
Does the above advice apply equally to beige (temporary) and blue (permanent) Residence Certificates?

Thanks
Tim

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Carolina » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:05 pm

Tim - the travel advice yes. Take whichever certificate you have with you when travelling.

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Kilkis » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:36 pm

Slightly ambiguous advice on carrying medication. The statement "A doctor’s prescription is required in all cases,..." is in the paragraph on "controlled medication" in a general section on medication. Does the "all" in the sentence refer to "all controlled medication" or to "all medication"? Many medicines that require a prescription in the UK can be bought over the counter at a pharmacy in Greece with no prescription. It would seem a little odd if you need a prescription to bring in medication that could be bought without a prescription here?

Warwick

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Clio » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:32 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... pensioners

So that's all right then (see penultimate para). No need to worry about a thing, chaps, but let's all make sure we've got that cut, pasted and saved against the day when we may need to quote it, God help us.

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby scooby » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:04 pm

Clio wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/31/britons-living-in-eu-call-on-may-to-secure-healthcare-for-pensioners

So that's all right then (see penultimate para). No need to worry about a thing, chaps, but let's all make sure we've got that cut, pasted and saved against the day when we may need to quote it, God help us.

When the time comes who are you going to quote? A "spokesperson"?
Men in suits will always make you pay.

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Kilkis » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:10 pm

Comfort of sorts for those living in France, Ireland or Spain but what about those of us living in one of the other 24 member states?

I am not sure why agreeing an arrangement is apparently so difficult. A simple letter from the appropriate UK government minister to their counterparts in every EU member state saying:

    "A primary concern of all governments is the health of its citizens wherever they are. The EU has a fully functioning and sensible reciprocal healthcare agreement together with all the necessary administrative systems to make it work. The UK government proposes that it and your government sign a simple, legally binding, bilateral agreement that will come into force in the event that there is no overall deal between the UK and the EU. That protocol will agree to continue reciprocal healthcare arrangements and payment methods as detailed in the existing EU wide system. While the rules under which nationals can move between our respective countries may change in the future it is inevitable that such movement will take place. The UK government, therefore, proposes that this reciprocal healthcare agreement will apply to citizens who live in each other's country at the point of the UK's exit from the EU and to all future citizens who move between our countries in the future under whatever legal arrangements exist. The legal text of the bilateral agreement can be taken directly from the December 2017 protocol to which all member states have already agreed".

There isn't any detail to negotiate so it is a simple question to each member state, "Do you want such an agreement to protect the healthcare rights of your citizens or not."

Warwick

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby bobscott » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:44 pm

scooby wrote:
Clio wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/31/britons-living-in-eu-call-on-may-to-secure-healthcare-for-pensioners

So that's all right then (see penultimate para). No need to worry about a thing, chaps, but let's all make sure we've got that cut, pasted and saved against the day when we may need to quote it, God help us.

When the time comes who are you going to quote? A "spokesperson"?


good Lord. Irony, old chap, irony! Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Mixos » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:42 pm

As an update to Carol's original post ... Police at Passport Control at Heraklion Airport and, I assume, at Chania too (and the ferry terminals?) are now SCANNING passports of passengers arriving on UK flights, as opposed to merely looking at them as they've done up to now. I presume they will also scan on departure, so there will -- for the first time -- be an official log of visits by British passport holders to Greece, with all the implications for length of stay, etc. I realise this information could have been obtained from aircraft manifests in the past, but this is clearly the start of life after Brexit for visiting Brits and all the more reason -- as Carol explains at the top -- for us to carry and show our Residence Certificates when the UK has left the EU.

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Carolina » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:56 pm

They are not yet (as of yesterday) stamping UK passports on entry at Chania airport. This will be due to the fact that since my original post above, we have still not yet left the EU.

The scanning of passports is a different issue in line with an EU law, for all European citizens travelling to/from destinations outside the Schengen area (including the UK) - the 2017 Schengen Borders Code regulation EU 2017/458 www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/greece

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Kilkis » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:19 am

Mixos wrote:As an update to Carol's original post ... Police at Passport Control at Heraklion Airport and, I assume, at Chania too (and the ferry terminals?) are now SCANNING passports of passengers arriving on UK flights, as opposed to merely looking at them as they've done up to now. I presume they will also scan on departure, so there will -- for the first time -- be an official log of visits by British passport holders to Greece, with all the implications for length of stay, etc. I realise this information could have been obtained from aircraft manifests in the past, but this is clearly the start of life after Brexit for visiting Brits and all the more reason -- as Carol explains at the top -- for us to carry and show our Residence Certificates when the UK has left the EU.


The purpose of scanning is to check the person against international lists of people who are wanted or who have some travel embargo. As far as I know they are not yet recording exit/entry dates in any sort of database. As mentioned by Carol, such entry/exit controls are implemented by Schengen stamps in the passport and they are not being used on UK citizens yet. See this ekathimerini article. Many countries were given extensions to allow them to implement the 2017 regulation and Greece, with a couple of other countries, were the last to bring it into force.

Warwick

PS EC Directives are instructions to member states to implement/modify their national laws to bring them all into agreement. There is usually a time period specified in the Directive to allow them to do that, e.g. two years. EU Regulations apply directly, i.e. they don't need to be transposed into national law, and so usually come into force almost immediately after they are published, e.g. two weeks. Often extensions are granted to countries that are not able to bring them into force immediately.

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Guy M » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:53 am

Our passports (British and Irish) weren’t scanned at Chania yesterday.

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby Mixos » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:25 pm

Thanks for the explanation, Carol and Warwick. So it seems that it's merely a coincidence that Greece has started to comply with this Schengen directive at the very moment the UK was due to leave the EU, and that the new scanning of passports at Heraklion is unconnected with Brexit? Even so, it gives a foretaste of what is to come, as indicated by the ekathimerini article. (Maybe they haven't yet installed the passport scanners at Chania, Guy!)

After Brexit, when they DO start to mark British passports with entry and exit stamps, would I be correct in assuming that our passports will NOT be stamped if we present our Greek Residence Card at the same time?

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Re: Departing/Entering Greece After Brexit

Postby altohb » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:30 pm

Mixos wrote:Thanks for the explanation, Carol and Warwick. So it seems that it's merely a coincidence that Greece has started to comply with this Schengen directive at the very moment the UK was due to leave the EU, and that the new scanning of passports at Heraklion is unconnected with Brexit? Even so, it gives a foretaste of what is to come, as indicated by the ekathimerini article. (Maybe they haven't yet installed the passport scanners at Chania, Guy!)

After Brexit, when they DO start to mark British passports with entry and exit stamps, would I be correct in assuming that our passports will NOT be stamped if we present our Greek Residence Card at the same time?


That was certainly what was suggested at the Embassy meeting; queries were raised by some people who were "part time" residents and the Deputy Ambassador was very clear that carrying permits was the best possible way of avoiding any trouble.


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