I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
GlennB
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Arkadia, Peloponnese

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby GlennB » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:46 am

scooby wrote:What has changed since the “advisory “ (cough cough) referendum?


The Brexiteers' lies have been exposed and the truth about the actual nature of Brexit has become clearer, especially hard Brexit.

scooby
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby scooby » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:47 am

GlennB wrote:
scooby wrote:What has changed since the “advisory “ (cough cough) referendum?


The Brexiteers' lies have been exposed and the truth about the actual nature of Brexit has become clearer, especially hard Brexit.
Is it possible to elaborate?
Get Brexit done.

GlennB
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Arkadia, Peloponnese

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby GlennB » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:01 am

scooby wrote:
GlennB wrote:
scooby wrote:What has changed since the “advisory “ (cough cough) referendum?


The Brexiteers' lies have been exposed and the truth about the actual nature of Brexit has become clearer, especially hard Brexit.
Is it possible to elaborate?


The 350M a week we 'send' to the EU was a lie.

Here's just one example of the practical issues that nobody on the leave campaign was mentioning (or even thinking about, probably):

"Chris Slowey, head of Manfreight, a hauliers in Northern Ireland with 300 employees and 120 indirect jobs, lists just some of the crises ahead: they take Kerry Foods from the Republic to places like Leeds, but with a no deal “taking just one quiche across the border needs three vet certificates, for the milk, the ham and the eggs. That’ll take five times more vets and they’re short already.”"

So many businesses will be stuffed by Brexit.

scooby
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby scooby » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:09 am

The 350M a week we 'send' to the EU was a lie.

[/quote]

Not quite according to high court judges. Next.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 85876.html
Get Brexit done.

Maud
Posts: 745
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: S.W. England/ S.W. Crete.

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby Maud » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:20 am

One thing that has clearly changed is the Brexit which was promised......one where very little would change. Many people voted for Brexit believing there would not be any job losses, businesses would be able to carry on importing and exporting with the EU and the rest of the world without any extra costs, food etc for consumers would not get more expensive.....and there would be no ‘bumps in the road’. - Johnson’s own public comment that there will be bumps in the road. This is no longer the case. People were promised a smooth transition.

When Article 50 was triggered by MP’s they were not triggering a ‘no deal Brexit.’ I don’t believe for a moment that many of them thought we would be leaving the EU without a deal. I also believe at the time MP’s were doing what they felt they should do, in order to honour the result of the referendum. - A referendum which promised little change to the Status Quo. This is no longer the case. Now the problems of exiting the EU are so clear, they are not happy about what is happening.

If people cannot see what has changed since the referendum, then there is no point in trying to explain it! I am not advocating no Brexit, but I strongly object to ‘No deal’ which will eliminate many small businesses, cause job losses and ruin lives. There is a huge difference between ‘No Deal’ and a well managed Brexit....which was what voters were promised, and which MP’s believed would happen when they triggered Article 50.

It is why Parliament now has so many concerns about leaving without a deal. Sadly, MP’s with these concerns are being portrayed as ‘enemies of the people by Johnson and his cronies. It is shades of the referendum all over again....using inflammatory language and false information to convince the voting public they are the ‘good guys.’

The whole thing is depressing and upsetting.

altohb
Posts: 914
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sitia

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby altohb » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 am

Maud wrote:One thing that has clearly changed is the Brexit which was promised......one where very little would change. Many people voted for Brexit believing there would not be any job losses, businesses would be able to carry on importing and exporting with the EU and the rest of the world without any extra costs, food etc for consumers would not get more expensive.....and there would be no ‘bumps in the road’. - Johnson’s own public comment that there will be bumps in the road. This is no longer the case. People were promised a smooth transition.

When Article 50 was triggered by MP’s they were not triggering a ‘no deal Brexit.’ I don’t believe for a moment that many of them thought we would be leaving the EU without a deal. I also believe at the time MP’s were doing what they felt they should do, in order to honour the result of the referendum. - A referendum which promised little change to the Status Quo. This is no longer the case. Now the problems of exiting the EU are so clear, they are not happy about what is happening.

If people cannot see what has changed since the referendum, then there is no point in trying to explain it! I am not advocating no Brexit, but I strongly object to ‘No deal’ which will eliminate many small businesses, cause job losses and ruin lives. There is a huge difference between ‘No Deal’ and a well managed Brexit....which was what voters were promised, and which MP’s believed would happen when they triggered Article 50.

It is why Parliament now has so many concerns about leaving without a deal. Sadly, MP’s with these concerns are being portrayed as ‘enemies of the people by Johnson and his cronies. It is shades of the referendum all over again....using inflammatory language and false information to convince the voting public they are the ‘good guys.’

The whole thing is depressing and upsetting.


You are absolutely right, Maud. Some people do just not "get" the way our Parliament works, or the fact that MPs are representatives, not delegates. Closing down Parliament would be the act of a dictatorial regime, not a democratically accountable government. Parliament as a whole is sovereign, not just the government of the day.

scooby
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby scooby » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:31 am

Maud wrote:One thing that has clearly changed is the Brexit which was promised......one where very little would change. Many people voted for Brexit believing there would not be any job losses, businesses would be able to carry on importing and exporting with the EU and the rest of the world without any extra costs, food etc for consumers would not get more expensive
I will try to deal with individual points or everything gets muddled and just to make it clear. The remain campaign said all of these things would happen if people voted to leave. They voted to leave.
Get Brexit done.

scooby
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby scooby » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:33 am

Maud wrote:When Article 50 was triggered by MP’s they were not triggering a ‘no deal Brexit.’ I don’t believe for a moment that many of them thought we would be leaving the EU without a deal. I also believe at the time MP’s were doing what they felt they should do, in order to honour the result of the referendum. - A referendum which promised little change to the Status Quo. This is no longer the case. Now the problems of exiting the EU are so clear, they are not happy about what is happening.

Mp's knew exactly what they were voting on as it's explained in article 50.
Get Brexit done.

GlennB
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Arkadia, Peloponnese

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby GlennB » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:06 am

scooby wrote:
GlennB wrote:The 350M a week we 'send' to the EU was a lie.


Not quite according to high court judges. Next.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 85876.html


"Politicians making false statements is not new" is your defence here? That's laughable.

scooby
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby scooby » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:09 am

Take it up with the judges. It's also not my defence.
Get Brexit done.

GlennB
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Arkadia, Peloponnese

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby GlennB » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:10 am

scooby wrote:
Maud wrote:One thing that has clearly changed is the Brexit which was promised......one where very little would change. Many people voted for Brexit believing there would not be any job losses, businesses would be able to carry on importing and exporting with the EU and the rest of the world without any extra costs, food etc for consumers would not get more expensive
I will try to deal with individual points or everything gets muddled and just to make it clear. The remain campaign said all of these things would happen if people voted to leave. They voted to leave.


Really? Do you have a source for that, or are you just outright trolling now?

GlennB
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Arkadia, Peloponnese

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby GlennB » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:11 am

scooby wrote:Take it up with the judges. It's also not my defence.


"Never mud-wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and the pig enjoys it"

scooby
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby scooby » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:28 am

GlennB wrote:
scooby wrote:
Maud wrote:One thing that has clearly changed is the Brexit which was promised......one where very little would change. Many people voted for Brexit believing there would not be any job losses, businesses would be able to carry on importing and exporting with the EU and the rest of the world without any extra costs, food etc for consumers would not get more expensive
I will try to deal with individual points or everything gets muddled and just to make it clear. The remain campaign said all of these things would happen if people voted to leave. They voted to leave.


Really? Do you have a source for that, or are you just outright trolling now?
You must either have a short memory or a selective one, I think the latter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOSdMeEeiiI

Plenty more you can find.
Get Brexit done.

Kamisiana
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby Kamisiana » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:49 pm

The Brexiteers' lies have been exposed and the truth about the actual nature of Brexit has become clearer, especially hard Brexit.[/quote] Is it possible to elaborate?[/quote]

The 350M a week we 'send' to the EU was a lie.

Here's just one example of the practical issues that nobody on the leave campaign was mentioning (or even thinking about, probably):

"Chris Slowey, head of Manfreight, a hauliers in Northern Ireland with 300 employees and 120 indirect jobs, lists just some of the crises ahead: they take Kerry Foods from the Republic to places like Leeds, but with a no deal “taking just one quiche across the border needs three vet certificates, for the milk, the ham and the eggs. That’ll take five times more vets and they’re short already.”"

So many businesses will be stuffed by Brexit.[/quote]

The UK's EU membership fee
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-memb ... 5-million/

Voni
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:33 pm

Re: I smelled a rat, and I found a rat

Postby Voni » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:20 pm

Thank you Kamisiana an interesting example.

A few other examples nobody on the leave campaign (or to be honest the remain side either) mentioned to the British public before the vote....

In the case of no deal on 1st November the UK will lose access to the:

European Arrest Warrant.

Schengen Information System database, SISII. SISII is a vital tool used by the police, border control etc for the purposes of national security, law enforcement border control etc.

European Criminal Record Information System (ECRIS) a pan-EU data exchange system used by Member States to exchange information on criminal convictions.

Prüm, a system designed to improve the exchange of information on fingerprints, DNA and vehicle registration data between national police and judicial authorities - unknown DNA samples collected from crime scenes can be compared automatically with profiles held by other EU member states.

European Dactyloscopy (EURODAC) an asylum fingerprint database which contains information collected from individuals applying for asylum and irregular border- crossers it can identify if individuals applying for asylum have applied for asylum in another Member State or have illegally transited through another Member State.

Erasmus, a European Union student exchange programme.

Horizon 2020 - the biggest EU Research and Innovation programme ever. (The UK government has agreed to pick up the bill until 2020 for UK university research which would previously been funded by the EU).

Euratom – the European Atomic Energy Community – relating to nuclear it ensures that Europe’s nuclear plants (and waste) is managed safely.

Trade deals - in a no deal situation the UK will be the only country in the world (apart from Mauritania) who doesn’t have a trade deal.

Why does everyone keep telling me they knew what they voted for? They knew a BIT about what they were voting for, the whole picture certainly wasn’t spelt out to anyone!


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