Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Temporary Forum - Please keep it CIVIL and ON TOPIC regarding updates/ news / concerns on British living / travelling in the EU.
GlennB
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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby GlennB » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:33 pm

Rick wrote:The source of the following paragraph is from https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/w ... dex_en.htm

“You are tax resident if you are in Greece continuously for a period exceeding 183 days, including short periods of presence abroad since your first day of presence in Greece. This doesn't apply if you are in Greece for tourism, medical, therapeutic or similar private purposes and your residence does not exceed 365 days, including short stays abroad.”

As previously highlighted by Kilkis, it seems some Accountants are using the above clause (in Greece for tourism, medical or therapeutic purposes not exceeding 365 days) for the purpose of facilitating their clients the avoidance of Greek tax residency. I interpret this clause as a ‘one off’ declaration for a stay in Greece not exceeding 365 days and not intended to be an annual opt out on ‘nil’ based tax returns.

I wonder if Accountants will still try to use this loophole after the transition period ends this year?


The second paragraph has been my understanding of the situation since we moved here 12 years ago. I *suspect* that some accountants note that an expat is still paying (or is eligible to pay, in the pension case) tax in the UK and declares the person non-resident for tax purposes, or similar. After that, nobody at a higher level actually checks.

ros21m
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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby ros21m » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:07 pm

I've had an AFM since I bought my house in 2007, so my accountant has filed tax returns for me ever since then. When I was still working & resident in the UK, one year the Greek taxman requested I complete a Dual Taxation form, which was duly completed & returned. When I moved permanently in 2013, my accountant changed my status to tax resident. Every year since then I furnish them with my P60, for my pension & the form from the bank, showing the transfer of funds from the UK to my bank here. Last year I was asked to confirm that my pension was a UK Government pension.

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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby Carolina » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:50 pm

EHIC Card

I've just updated the original post, above, about the EHIC card, according to the British in Europe group.

Article 30 of the Withdrawal Agreement covers the continuing right to use an EHIC, after Jan 2021, as follows:

1. S1 holders who have a UK issued EHIC will be able to use it across the EU/EEA.
Pensioner S1 holders will also continue to be able to access UK health care under UK regs, as they can now.

2. People working in their host countries who hold the country equivalent of the EHIC issued by the health scheme of that country (e.g. Greek issued EHIC) will be able to use them in the UK and across the EU.

Keltz
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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby Keltz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:46 pm

ros21m wrote:I've had an AFM since I bought my house in 2007, so my accountant has filed tax returns for me ever since then. When I was still working & resident in the UK, one year the Greek taxman requested I complete a Dual Taxation form, which was duly completed & returned. When I moved permanently in 2013, my accountant changed my status to tax resident. Every year since then I furnish them with my P60, for my pension & the form from the bank, showing the transfer of funds from the UK to my bank here. Last year I was asked to confirm that my pension was a UK Government pension.


I would add to that I was recently asked by a Greek bank to provide a letter from HMRC confirming that I am a UK tax resident in order to open an account with them.

UK State pensions are taxed in the UK, that as I see it has not changed with the WA. Private pensions are probably not included athough am happy to be corrected on that.

OliveTree
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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby OliveTree » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:07 pm

Official EU healthcare guidance from Britain's (rather rambling) gov.uk website:

"There will be no changes to healthcare access for UK nationals visiting or living in the EU, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland before the end of 2020. You can continue to use your EHIC during this time, as you did before."

"If you’re living in Greece or move there permanently before the end of 2020, you’ll have life-long healthcare rights in Greece as you do now, provided you remain legally resident. You may need to register or apply for residency. This means you’ll also have the right to apply for a UK S1 if you start drawing a UK State Pension"

"If you move to Greece long-term or plan to work in the country, you’ll have to register with the Greek authorities and get a Social Insurance Number, called an AMKA in Greek, through your local citizens service centre or KEP office (information in Greek only). Once registered to work in Greece and making national insurance contributions, you’ll be entitled to state-run healthcare on the same basis as a Greek national. You’ll also have to register with the Greek National Organisation for Healthcare Services Provision (EOPYY). Visit the EOPYY website (information in Greek only), where you can find information on how to access healthcare."

"You may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK if you live in Greece and receive: an exportable UK State Pension; a contribution-based Employment Support Allowance; another exportable benefit. You will need to apply for a certificate of entitlement known as an S1 certificate."

Geoffrey

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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby bobscott » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:17 pm

ros21m wrote:I've had an AFM since I bought my house in 2007, so my accountant has filed tax returns for me ever since then. When I was still working & resident in the UK, one year the Greek taxman requested I complete a Dual Taxation form, which was duly completed & returned. When I moved permanently in 2013, my accountant changed my status to tax resident. Every year since then I furnish them with my P60, for my pension & the form from the bank, showing the transfer of funds from the UK to my bank here. Last year I was asked to confirm that my pension was a UK Government pension.


As ever Ros, it seems to come down to whoever is your accountant and how they are able to 'manipulate' the rules! I have never been asked to complete any form. It has always been assumed that as I have absolutely no income (apart from 6 eurocents a year interest on a deposit account in my Greek bank account) there is no point in trying to charge me income tax here. I pay tax in the UK. When I was a householder, I paid my property tax, council tax, etc etc plus of course VAT on various items. Now that I rent property here again, although I still pay VAT (ΦΠΑ) on anything I buy, road tax for the car, extra tax charges on mobile phone top-ups etc, I pay little else in taxes in Greece. The income I have comes solely from the UK (Civil Service Pension and state retirement pension) and my accountant appears to be able to live with that - and so far so does the tax man! Long may it continue.

We live here for 'peace of mind'. I guess that could be classed as a 'health' reason if necessary! Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Dianne
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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby Dianne » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:39 am

Do we have to be physically present on 31 december 2020 the end of transition period or if we have a beige residency card can we be absent on that date.how long do we have to obtain the biometric card for is this essential for being resident longterm .can we obtain it after january 2021?
Dianne

BST
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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby BST » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:04 am

Dianne wrote:Do we have to be physically present on 31 december 2020 the end of transition period or if we have a beige residency card can we be absent on that date.how long do we have to obtain the biometric card for is this essential for being resident longterm .can we obtain it after january 2021?
Dianne


According to other website, the biometric cards have to be issued by June 30th. If that's the case I will be leaving it as long as possible until I am covered by S1. I think you would be ok out of the country with your beige permit as long as you are back within 6 months....and have it with you to return.

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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:39 am

There has been comment about "long-stay Schengen visa" as a way to circumvent the 90 day rule, and also avoid the need to get a biometric residence permit. How would this work?

UK citizens are exempt from needing a visa to enter the Schengen area. I imagine that applying for a visa would simply result in being told to go away. After 31/12/20, UK citizens will need to apply for an ETIAS certificate, but I think they are only good for 90 days in 180 too.

Andrew

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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby bobscott » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:43 pm

Keltz wrote:[

UK State pensions are taxed in the UK, that as I see it has not changed with the WA. Private pensions are probably not included athough am happy to be corrected on that.


You just need to be careful how you define 'UK State pensions'. Those paid by the Government to employees who worked for the Government (Civil Servants, some teachers etc) can ONLY pay tax on those pensions in the UK, according to the Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between UK and Greece (predates EU membership and has nothing to do with it!). However the UK State Retirement Pensiion is NOT a State Pension within the meaning of the DTA and can, technically be taxed in Greece. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Keltz
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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby Keltz » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:09 pm

Thanks Bob, I didn't know that. Looking at the relevent UK.GOV web page ( below ) where tax is deducted will be decided when pension is claimed and at least good that the UK Personal Allowance can be retained albeit by reinbursing that amount of tax at the end of the year.

"Overseas residents

You may be taxed on your State Pension by the UK and the country where you live. If you pay tax twice, you can usually claim tax relief to get all or some of it back.

If the country you live in has a ‘double taxation agreement’ with the UK, you’ll only pay tax on your pension once. This may be to the UK or the country where you live, depending on that country’s tax agreement."

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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby Carolina » Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:47 pm

YoMo2 wrote:There has been comment about "long-stay Schengen visa" as a way to circumvent the 90 day rule, and also avoid the need to get a biometric residence permit. How would this work?

UK citizens are exempt from needing a visa to enter the Schengen area. I imagine that applying for a visa would simply result in being told to go away. After 31/12/20, UK citizens will need to apply for an ETIAS certificate, but I think they are only good for 90 days in 180 too.

Andrew


The long term visa is different to the 90 day stamp/visa Andrew. Some other non-EU nationals currently don' t need a Schengen visa to travel in the Schengen zone for up to 90 days in any 180 - they just receive a stamp in their passport on entry, and exit. If they wish to stay longer (for work, medical reasons etc) they have to apply for the long-term visa.

Once the transition period ends UK citizens will fall under these rules, with the addition of applying for an ETIAS visa-free waiver in advance for a maximum 90 day stay, instead of (or in addition to) receiving a stamp in their passport. The long term visa should then be available to them too, under certain conditions (work etc?).

YoMo2
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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:22 pm

Thanks Caroline, that's interesting. I'm aware of the fact that citizens of, I think 62 countries, currently don't need a visa to enter the Schengen area, and that the ETIAS system will apply to them and to UK citizens from 1/1/21. I'm struggling to find anything about a "long term visa". I may have missed it, but the EU's official website seems to refer only to 90 day visas. If such a thing exists, they're keeping it very quiet. :-)

Andrew

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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby Kilkis » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:01 pm

I would have thought longer term entry would be under the control of individual nations when it comes to third countries rather than EU Law like Schengen. If there is a common Schengen rule for long term visas how do a number of countries have golden visa schemes all of which have totally different conditions attached to them.

Warwick

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Re: Withdrawal Agreement & our Rights - What's covered?

Postby Carolina » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:58 pm

Yes the long term visa is a National Visa, rather than a uniform Schengen visa.

https://visaguide.world/europe/greece-v ... ce-permit/


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