UK EHIC CARDS FOR EXPATS

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bobscott
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UK EHIC CARDS FOR EXPATS

Postby bobscott » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:33 am

Given that the UK public is being told that UK EHIC cards will be invalid from 1 January 2021, do we have any info about the EHIC cards issued by the UK and held by expat permanent residents in the EU? I know that the WA that was signed earlier this year allows for S1 pensioners to remain under the umbrella of EOPYY but what about EHIC cards. I don't recall anything in the WA referring specifically or by implication to that. Will they be supplied to us by Greece in future, (like the very first one we had, years ago) or will they still be UK-generated. And if the latter, might we not, as permanent residents in Greece, have a problem using such a card say in Italy or France? Any info, anyone? Thanks. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: UK EHIC CARDS FOR EXPATS

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:12 am

I think that depends on what arrangement, if any, is reached in the final deal between the UK and the EU.

If there is no deal on reciprocal healthcare then the UK will no longer be part of the EHIC scheme, the UK will stop issuing EHICs and EHIC's already issued by the UK will have no validity.

It is also possible that, as part of the final deal, the UK remains part of the EHIC scheme, in which case the UK will continue to issue EHICs, including for S1 Form holders registered with EOPYY, and UK issued EHICs will continue to be recognised across the EU.

In the first scenario it is possible that a specific arrangement will be made in the case of S1 Form holders. In the past the healthcare provider used to issue the EHIC, i.e. if you were an S1 Form holder in Greece registered with IKA then IKA issued the EHIC. That changed some years ago so that the country responsible for paying for health treatment issued the EHIC, i.e. in our case the UK. Since, under the Withdrawal Agreement for S1 Form holders, treatment will continue to be provided in Greece by EOPYY but paid for by the UK it is possible that EOPYY might revert to issuing EHICs to S1 Form holders. If you got treatment in Italy, say, then Italy would bill EOPYY through the EHIC scheme and EOPYY would then bill the UK through the S1 Form scheme. That might also be negotiated on a country by country basis.

It is also possible under the first scenario we will lose all rights to healthcare when travelling to other EU countries. You would still be entitled to healthcare when visiting the UK since that is in the Withdrawal Agreement.

Nobody knows what the outcome will be until the ink has dried on the final deal, if there is one. At the moment that looks a bit improbable unless you are someone who believes that the EU will not agree to anything until 23:59:59 on 31 December 2020 and then they will sign.

Warwick

solitude1
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Re: UK EHIC CARDS FOR EXPATS

Postby solitude1 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:11 pm

I think the way things are going in the UK EHIC cards will become a thing of the past.
The UK government is being so bloody minded of anything to to with Europe at the moment,
i can not see us getting any favors.

Voni
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Re: UK EHIC CARDS FOR EXPATS

Postby Voni » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:04 pm

The mechanism for continuance of reciprocal healthcare arrangements (including EHIC) is already in place via the Healthcare International Arrangements bill which received royal assent in March 2019. This gives the UK the power to implement new reciprocal healthcare - but we await the outcome of negotiations - it doesn’t appear to be very high on the agenda unfortunately.

Spain in particular have been pushing hard to continue with EHIC for UK citizens and discussions during the passage of the bill emphasised the problems that could be faced by uk citizens with existing conditions who may find it difficult to obtain travel insurance cover.


https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... 55en03.htm

Short extract from the summary document:-

“These powers will ensure the Government is prepared for a number of different EU exit outcomes and is able to implement new reciprocal healthcare agreements in the future. The Bill:

●supports the UK to implement our future relationship with the EU on reciprocal healthcare. The White Paper on the Future Relationship with the EU set out that there should be reciprocal healthcare cover for state pensioners retiring to the EU or the UK, continued participation in the EHIC scheme and cooperation on planned medical treatment, supported by any necessary administrative cooperation and data-sharing requirements;”

Kilkis
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Re: UK EHIC CARDS FOR EXPATS

Postby Kilkis » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:54 pm

I think UK legislation only enables the UK government to implement "reciprocal legislation" once an agreement is reached. The clue is in the word "reciprocal", Voni; it needs the other side to agree.

I think this article regarding UK participation in the Schengen Information System gives some idea about how cooperative the EU are feeling. Obviously not the same as reciprocal healthcare but indicative of the climate of the negotiations. A quote from a Guardian article:

    British police and border guards are the third heaviest users of the database, making 571m searches in 2019 (a figure that includes automated bulk data sweeps) to look for wanted people or stolen goods. UK forces issued 36,680 alerts on people and 259,824 on vehicles in 2019 – essentially a request to other police to carry out checks.

Warwick

Voni
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Re: UK EHIC CARDS FOR EXPATS

Postby Voni » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:08 am

With respect Kilkis, the UK government have always known that BREXIT would threaten their access to some very important European databases and systems, not only SIS II, but databases that gather intelligence on human trafficking, Illegal migration, sex crimes, child abduction etc. my post from June 2019 refers.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11488&p=77619#p77619

(Hope the link works within the forum, not done it before).

Access to some EU security systems is covered under the withdrawal agreement but it basically relies on mutual trust and it would appear that there isn’t a lot of that apparent at the moment! The EU have always stated that they had concerns about sharing their databases with a third country.

Another example is that the UK have just pledged to spend £400m investing in development of a new rival system to replace Galileo, the EU wide satellite navigation system which the UK helped to develop and which is currently used for (amongst other things) UK car sat navs. Access to Galileo by the UK after BREXIT has never been an option.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... leo-system

Kilkis
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Re: UK EHIC CARDS FOR EXPATS

Postby Kilkis » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:00 am

I think we are talking at cross purposes, Voni? I read your first paragraph:

Voni wrote:The mechanism for continuance of reciprocal healthcare arrangements (including EHIC) is already in place via the Healthcare International Arrangements bill which received royal assent in March 2019...


to mean that: "Therefore it will all be OK". Having read the rest of your post again, possibly more carefully, I think you are saying the same as me, i.e. it is capable of being sorted out but the current outlook suggests that it may well not be?

I agree that there are many EU systems that the UK will be excluded from after 31/12/2020 and will need to replicate themselves. Some cannot be replicated. The UK can replicate a satellite constellation, at a cost, but it cannot replicate an EU database because it won't have access to the data.

Warwick

Alf
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Re: UK EHIC CARDS FOR EXPATS

Postby Alf » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:31 pm

The Department for Works and Pensions posted this update yesterday.

https://bit.ly/2Zwrnbb

I don't think it tells us anything new but it may be of interest to someone.

Alf


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