Electric Shocker

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Clio
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Electric Shocker

Postby Clio » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:12 pm


YoMo2
Posts: 905
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby YoMo2 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:18 am

Yes, not good. The percentage breakdown in the article may not apply to everyone. It will depend on your consumption. My last bill, for example, showed 57% was taxes and fees etc including distribution network. So if I use 100 euros worth of electricity, I pay over 200 euros in total. Not a nice feeling. I know some of it is council tax and TV licence but nevertheless.

Τι να κανουμε......

Ανδρεας
"It's all in the implementation"

SatCure
Posts: 1912
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:57 pm
Location: Apokoronas

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby SatCure » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:17 pm

A not insignificant amount is for "carbon tax". In other words, they are still implying that human-produced CO2 is causing global warming, even though that's an outright lie.

peebee
Posts: 650
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:07 am
Location: Kalyves

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby peebee » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:38 pm

SatCure wrote:A not insignificant amount is for "carbon tax". In other words, they are still implying that human-produced CO2 is causing global warming, even though that's an outright lie.

Martin, looks like you are a CC denier, me too :-)

Clio
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby Clio » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:12 pm

Well, if you guys are happy to belong to any club which has Trump as a member....

mouche
Posts: 564
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby mouche » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:54 pm

Clio wrote:Well, if you guys are happy to belong to any club which has Trump as a member....


+1

Kilkis
Posts: 8908
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby Kilkis » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:44 pm

SatCure wrote:... they are still implying that human-produced CO2 is causing global warming, even though that's an outright lie.


I would welcome your scientific evidence for that statement? That the climate is warming is totally incontrovertible. There is so much evidence it is completely overwhelming. Since climate change is a science all you need to do is describe what alternative mechanism is causing that warming and what your evidence is for that mechanism? That is how science works; anything less is not science. If you refer me to Lord Monckton I will cry. If you tell me it just happens because it has always happened I will slit my wrists in despair.

About 16 % of the electricity part of my bill is for the green levy.

Warwick

filippos
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Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Kalyves
Contact:

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby filippos » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:48 pm

Kilkis wrote:If you tell me it just happens because it has always happened I will slit my wrists in despair.

It just happens because it has always happened!

Eleni13
Posts: 468
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:13 am
Location: UK

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby Eleni13 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:55 am

It happens because it has always happed. We just think that it hasn't always happened because the media have short memories and underqualified "science" correspondents, and the masses believe them.

Peter W
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: Near Spili

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby Peter W » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:28 am

Eleni13 wrote:It happens because it has always happed. We just think that it hasn't always happened because the media have short memories and underqualified "science" correspondents, and the masses believe them.


I Despair!

Pass the razor Warwick.

Peter

SatCure
Posts: 1912
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:57 pm
Location: Apokoronas

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby SatCure » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:23 am

Kilkis wrote:That the climate is warming is totally incontrovertible.

Well *I* controvert it!
It hasn't been warming since 1998.

See these videos for starters:
http://www.stop-global-warming.co.uk/

CO2 is a TRACE gas. There is only 0.004% of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The earth's temperature is 95% controlled by water vapour, leaving only 5% affect by ALL other gases. The idea that CO2 could have more than a miniscule effect on global temperature is completely crazy. It's like saying that adding an extra layer of paint on your walls will make your house so hot that you'll melt!

"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
(Lewis Carroll - Alice Through the Looking Glass.)

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby Kilkis » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:29 am

When you look at the graph of global warming it is dominated by cyclic changes like the solar sunspot cycle and the El Nino/La Nina cycles. They are much bigger than the trend caused by increasing CO2 If you pick a peak year as your starting point then you can make it appear to be cooling in the following few years. The same happened around 1945 and 1967. Each time the next peak was higher than the previous one because it is sat on top of the increasing trend. Over the 136 year record nine of the ten highest temperature years have all occurred since 2000. The missing one is 1998. I suggest you look at this NASA Site and click where it says Global Temperature just below the graphic. I see no evidence of recent cooling.

Water vapour is indeed the biggest contributor to the overall greenhouse effect, which keeps the Earth perhaps 50 C higher than it would be in the absence of all greenhouse gasses. We are not discussing the overall effect but the change since the start of the industrial revolution. You cannot explain that with water vapour. For example the amount of water vapour a cubic metre of air can hold depends on the air temperature. The higher the air temperature the higher the water vapour content. Thus water vapour is a major contributor to the overall greenhouse effect over the equator where the amount of water vapour is highest but has negligible effect over the poles because the air temperature is so low there is virtually no water vapour content. How then do you explain the fact that the temperature is increasing most rapidly over the poles compared to the rest of the planet? It can't be increases in water vapour.

In reality water vapour is an amplifying factor not a driver. As the air temperature rises due to increasing CO2 level it can hold more water vapour which raises the temperature even further.

Warwick

SatCure
Posts: 1912
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:57 pm
Location: Apokoronas

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby SatCure » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:19 pm

Please watch all the videos. I know it takes time but it's worth perusing ALL the evidence.

The world temperature has been on an extremely slow upward trend since the last ice age. It has nothing to do with human activities and actual measurements indicate that we'll be extremely lucky to see 2°C warming by the end of this century.

Clio
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby Clio » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:59 pm

Ω Θεέ μου. What's Greek for "deja vu"?

Topic here, lest we forget, is the bills, the bills....

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Electric Shocker

Postby Kilkis » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:53 pm

I understand your sentiment, Clio, but there is a relevance. Personally in the last year I have paid a little under €100 in charges levied on the electricity bill to promote a change to renewable energy. I think it is a small price to pay to offset the effects I am having on the planet due to my lifestyle. Clearly other people do not.

Whatever anybody thinks about climate change a five year old could tell you that the amount of fossil fuels stored in the Earth is not infinite. If we continue to consume it, especially at an increasing rate, it will run out. I can't tell you exactly when it will run out but I can tell you with 100 % certainty that it will run out. If anybody denies that I would love to hear their logical argument. Every kWh of energy we generate with renewable technology is a kWh less that we need to generate with fossil fuels and that extends the time when fossil fuels run out. I regard that as a good thing and worth paying a small premium for.

Warwick


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