resident permit - cream or blue

[toastie]

Hi.

I have been hearing that the cream resident permit is no longer valid and people who have one should exchange it for the blue one.
I thought it was valid for 5 years and then you can 'upgrade' to a permanent blue one then. at least thats was i was told when i had mine 2 years ago.

anyone know if this is correct?

Cheers

[Yin&Yang]

Hi

If you use the Search option on the Forum you will find more clarification. The Cream residency permit is given when you first apply for a Residency Permit, then after five years you can apply for the Permanent one which is indeed Blue.

Check out the Search bar for more details.

Lynn

[Yin&Yang]

Haven't heard that this has changed?

[Kilkis]

The initial residence certificate (beige) is still valid. It does not expire so you can continue to use it after 5 years. If you wish you can apply for a permanent one (blue) once you have been here 5 years but not before. The advice for those who have been here 5 years is to apply for the permanent one because, if the preliminary agreement reached in December comes into force, it should be easier to exchange that for the new residence document after the UK leaves the UK.

Once the UK leaves the EU in 2019 neither document will be valid for UK citizens. It will be necessary to apply for a new residence document. As yet that process has not been defined.

Warwick

PS The above does assume that the UK will leave the EU. Every iteration of the UK government's negotiating position seems to be drifting closer to not leaving at all?

[Phild]

The advice for those who have been here 5 years is to apply for the permanent one because, if the preliminary agreement reached in December comes into force, it should be easier to exchange that for the new residence document after the UK leaves the UK.

Do you have a source for this Warwick? I've been looking at the UK Embassy pages and can't find a reference to this.

PS The above does assume that the UK will leave the EU. Every iteration of the UK government's negotiating position seems to be drifting closer to not leaving at all?

We can but hope...

[toastie]

I guess what isn't gonna happen is that we all gonna be kicked out. It would be strange if we all had to apply for a visa or some sort of living permit, after all these years

[Kilkis]

...Do you have a source for this Warwick? I've been looking at the UK Embassy pages and can't find a reference to this...

I think it was said at a meeting between ex-pats and the Ambassador in Chania after the December preliminary agreement had been signed? I didn't attend so I am not certain.

It is certainly my advice. The agreement clearly states that anybody who has a permanent residence certificate will be able to exchange it for whatever new document is required with no bureaucracy and no charge. To me that makes it common sense to get a permanent one now since there is no cost involved, other than a couple of photos. We don't know what the procedure will be for people who don't have a permanent residence certificate.

Sorry, Toastie, but there is no guarantee that we won't all be kicked out. I think it unlikely BUT nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. I suspect that the EU might reject the latest proposal agreed at Chequers last weekend. If that happens will the government slide ever closer to not leaving or will they dig their heels in and say, "OK, then it's no deal"? I have no idea which way they will jump. If they opt for no deal then anything is possible.

I think it virtually certain that we will need to apply for some new sort of residence certificate if we are allowed to stay. The existing ones are for EU citizens and we will no longer be EU citizens.

Warwick

[toastie]

well i dont have a permanent one yet it seems. mine is only the cream coloured 5 year one.

guess we all gotta just wait and see. very concerning times ahead

[Kilkis]

It's NOT a 5 year one, Toastie. It does NOT expire. If you have been here LESS than 5 years then it is the correct certificate to hold. If you have lived here MORE than 5 years then it is still OK to continue using that certificate. Nobody can force you to apply for a permanent one. If the preliminary December agreement is implemented there should still be a process to continue living here after the UK leaves the EU whichever version you hold BUT it may be a different process depending which one you have. Nobody knows what will happen if the preliminary agreement is not implemented.

Warwick

[Phild]

My only worry in applying for the permanent residency certificate is that we are not tax resident in Greece.

If we have the permanent certificate, it could well be argued that we ought to be tax resident, and that's a can of worms I don't really want to open - particularly if we end up with a Brexit deal which forces us to leave and re-enter the country every six months.

[Kilkis]

I understand your concern, Phil, but I know lots of people who have permanent residence certificates that are not tax resident in Greece, including some who contribute to this forum. It is possible that the tax authority might challenge their right to remain tax resident at any time, whether they have a permanent certificate or not. Personally I don't think that getting a permanent residence certificate increases the probability of that happening but, obviously, I have no way of knowing. I think that it is quite possible that applying for whatever new document is needed after the UK leaves the EU might result in tax status being reviewed.

It has always been true that one part of government is very bad at talking to a different part of government. That is slowly changing in the UK and I would assume it will begin to change in Greece at some point. Government departments are increasingly using electronic databases to store information. Merging that data is quite difficult but, with the emergence of blockchain technology, creating a distributed ledger that links them all together is relatively simple.

Warwick

[toastie]

thanks for all the replies. very useful

[Tim]

Just as a footnote to this thread, I've been to Sitia police station this morning to exchange my beige residency permit (issued 2008) for a permanent blue one. I was unable to do so. The official in Sitia believes (and won't be persuaded otherwise) that the beige permit expires after 5 years, and if you don't exchange it at that point for a blue one, you have to apply for a new beige one which you then need to hold for a further 5 years before you can upgrade to a blue one.

Absolute nonsense, of course, but if you have a property in the Sitia area and you've had your temporary permit for over 5 years - that's what's likely to happen. I asked the official where I'd stand post-brexit and he said he was sure there'd be no problem. So that's all right then.

Tim

[Mixos]

Never mind, Tim. Crack open another Mythos and relax. Wish we could swap Barnier for your Sitia residence official, as I like the tone of his reassurance

[Kilkis]

If you go back before the 2004 Directive there was a system of residence permits that did indeed need to be renewed every 5 years and there was an expiry date on the permit. They varied, some were blue and some were green, although I am not sure of the significance of the different colours.

When the 2004 Directive came into force in 2006 the system changed to a Residence Certificate, which is beige, and a Permanent Residence Certificate, which is is blue. The beige certificate does not have an expiry date on it and there is nothing in the Directive about renewing it. As far as I am aware the only reason to renew it would be if your status changed. For example someone might arrive as a student and obtain a certificate under that paragraph of the Directive. When they completed their course they might then get a job and apply for a certificate under that paragraph of the Directive. Alternatively someone might arrive here to work and obtain a certificate under that paragraph and then retire and become self supporting and so apply for a certificate under that paragraph.

This extract is from a Document Issued by the UK Government on the basis of advice issued by the Greek Aliens' Bureau:

The following information has been supplied by the Greek Aliens Bureau:
It is obligatory for all EU nationals to apply for a “Registration Certificate” (Veveosi Engrafis - Βεβαίωση Εγγραφής) after they have spent 3 months in Greece (Directive 2004/38/EC). This certificate is open-dated. You only need to renew it if your circumstances change e.g. if you had registered as unemployed and you have now found employment

The link is a pdf so it should download to your Downloads folder, not open in your browser. There are a lot of contact numbers in it but not for Crete. You could also try contacting the Embassy in Athens and asking them if they could send you a copy of the advice issued by the Aliens' Bureau.

Warwick

PS There is a classic Catch 22 situation arising in the UK. Suppose you are an EU National working in the UK and you make a small mistake on your tax return. You realise the mistake and correct it but Immigration picks up on it and issues a deportation order on National Security grounds. You do not respect UK legal processes so you are an undesirable alien. You lodge an appeal, on the grounds that it was a genuine error that you have corrected and there is no outstanding issues with HMRC. The appeal reinforces the deportation order because appealing against a Home Office decision is yet further evidence that you don't respect the UK's legal processes.