unvaccinated

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allan
Posts: 728
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:56 am
Location: Chania

unvaccinated

Postby allan » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:55 pm

Quick question for an unvaccinated.

As there are so many different rules and regulations now, am I, as from Monday (30/11/21)

able to go to the supermarket without a covid test ?

allowed to visit a taverna that has outside seating without a covid test ?

So many people giving different advice.

Thanks

Yin&Yang
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Megala Horafia/Aptera

Re: unvaccinated

Postby Yin&Yang » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:10 pm

UPDATED & CORRECTED IN THREAD BELOW

My understanding is that you can visit a supermarket without being asked for proof of vaccination or a test. When I visit I am not asked.

However, I understand that you will be asked for proof of vaccination to be able to sit outside of a taverna or cafe. We have been asked to show our certificates.
Last edited by Yin&Yang on Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Someday is now : )

allan
Posts: 728
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:56 am
Location: Chania

Re: unvaccinated

Postby allan » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:21 pm

Thank you for your reply.

I was unsure about the outside taverna rules as they seem to change day by day. At least we have home deliveries. :D

There are new thoughts that all supermarkets will require a test before entry, i hope not.

Regards
Allan

TweetTweet
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:35 am

Re: unvaccinated

Postby TweetTweet » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:51 pm

allan wrote: At least we have home deliveries. :D

There are new thoughts that all supermarkets will require a test before entry, i hope not.

Regards
Allan


Lucky you re home deliveries - I'm a few Km east of Rethymnon and don't think any supermarket does a delivery (if anybody knows differently, please say!).

I'm not sure the thoughts are exactly new - the Shih Tzu-takis admin tested the waters about a week ago - of course that was before the Omicron variant had been "discovered" - (omicron is an anagram of Moronic); the various world-wide "Nudge Units" are back at it.

Just to say, MONDAY is 29 November - (sadly) I daresay by Tuesday 30 November however, the need for a test to gain supermarket entry will be active.

Flohn
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:51 pm

Re: unvaccinated

Postby Flohn » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:43 pm

Your wordplay’s hilarious, TweetTweet. Perhaps you should consider branding the vaccinated as ‘sheeple’? That one always raises a wry smile.

paul g
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:20 pm
Location: Nr. Kato Gouves

Re: unvaccinated

Postby paul g » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:40 am

It's moronic to be unvaccinated.

Cake
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:25 pm

Re: unvaccinated

Postby Cake » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:51 am

TweetTweet wrote:
allan wrote: At least we have home deliveries. :D

There are new thoughts that all supermarkets will require a test before entry, i hope not.

Regards
Allan


by Tuesday 30 November however, the need for a test to gain supermarket entry will be active
.


Sure about that? I cannot find that information.

Btw its not moronic to be unvaccinated, some people are allergic, and will die after a jab. You can do a test for allergic reactions (50 euro), all brands are tested, know a woman who was rushed to hospital after such a test, she can have none of the available vaccines.

Or like me I am still waiting for the temporary amka, the system sucks, but we all know that of greece. Not that I am scared but it annoys me not to be able to go to venues and spread the virus as a vaccinated person. :lol:

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: unvaccinated

Postby Kilkis » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:27 am

You are correct, Cake, that there are people who cannot be vaccinated for a range of valid medical reasons. Any comments I have made about unvaccinated people is very much NOT directed at them. The medical reasons are well established and the protocols for vaccination aim to take them into account. It should be recognised that this is a very small percentage of the population and very much smaller than the number of people who are not vaccinated.

It is not unreasonable, however, to expect such people to take other measures to reduce the spread of the virus such as getting tested when visiting places where the risk of spread is high. I don't see any reason why anybody anybody should be let off their duty to help to protect others against the virus by whatever method is available to them. When the government introduces rules to do that it is acting competently and should be supported.

When, however, the government impedes people getting the vaccines who want to receive it then it is acting incompetently and should rightly be criticised. The problems with temporary AMKA numbers are one example and have persisted in various forms since they were introduced. To say the problems will be fixed in "the coming weeks" is ludicrous.

This Keep Talking Greece article discusses some of the rumours circulating around future plans. Note that it includes the possibility of unvaccinated being excluded from cafés/tavernas altogether except for take away service and the need for a test to enter a supermarket being a last resort. I cannot judge if they are pure speculation on the part of the media or if they are the result of unofficial briefings possibly testing the water.

Warwick

mouche
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Re: unvaccinated

Postby mouche » Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:37 pm

Kilkis wrote:You are correct, Cake, that there are people who cannot be vaccinated for a range of valid medical reasons.
Warwick


And they represent five percent or one percent or one tenth of a percent of the population?

Yin&Yang
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Megala Horafia/Aptera

Re: unvaccinated

Postby Yin&Yang » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:25 pm

I was under the impression that item ‘1’ was already a government requirement but it seems not. However an announcement is being made tomorrow, as referred to in Keep Talking Greece, where the following may be implemented:

1. Only vaccinated citizens will be able to sit outside of cafes and tavernas (currently you can with a rapid flow test).

2. Face masks outside may become mandatory once again.

3. Twice weekly tested for unvaccinated workers may increase to thrice weekly.

My apologies for yesterday’s misinformed post.
Someday is now : )

Kilkis
Posts: 13202
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: unvaccinated

Postby Kilkis » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:56 pm

mouche wrote:...And they represent five percent or one percent or one tenth of a percent of the population?


I don't see the point of quoting hypothetical figures when neither you nor I have any idea what the percentage is. That is why I restricted my comment to "...a very small percentage of the population and very much smaller than the number of people who are not vaccinated." I am a great believer in using figures wherever possible BUT they must be based on evidence.

Warwick

TweetTweet
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:35 am

Re: unvaccinated

Postby TweetTweet » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:56 pm

Cake wrote:
TweetTweet wrote:
allan wrote: At least we have home deliveries. :D

There are new thoughts that all supermarkets will require a test before entry, i hope not.

Regards
Allan


by Tuesday 30 November however, the need for a test to gain supermarket entry will be active
.


Sure about that? I cannot find that information.

Btw its not moronic to be unvaccinated, some people are allergic, and will die after a jab. You can do a test for allergic reactions (50 euro), all brands are tested, know a woman who was rushed to hospital after such a test, she can have none of the available vaccines.

Or like me I am still waiting for the temporary amka, the system sucks, but we all know that of greece. Not that I am scared but it annoys me not to be able to go to venues and spread the virus as a vaccinated person. :lol:


Cake, when I said:
Just to say, MONDAY is 29 November - (sadly) I daresay by Tuesday 30 November however, the need for a test to gain supermarket entry will be active.

It was to benignly point up that Monday would be 29 (not 30 November) and given most worldwide governments fairly regularly say "this (X,Y,Z) will not happen" then next day complete volte-face.

paul g said:
"It's moronic to be unvaccinated."

What's your rationale paul?

Kilkis
Posts: 13202
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: unvaccinated

Postby Kilkis » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:44 pm

TweetTweet wrote:paul g said:
"It's moronic to be unvaccinated."

What's your rationale paul?


The scientific data:

1 If you catch COVID and are vaccinated you are around 10 times less likely to become seriously ill and/or die than someone who is not vaccinated. No current drug either real, e.g. Remdesivir, Baricitinib, Tocilizumab, Dexamethasone, or combinations and monoclonal antibodies, or imaginary, e.g. Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, are as effective at preventing death as the vaccines.

2 The incidence of serious adverse side effects in all age groups over 10 are less than the incidence of serious illness and death from catching COVID. Generally the incidence of serious side effects is at around the 1 in a million level although it does vary from vaccine to vaccine. Only a small percentage of those who encounter serious side effects die so the incidence of death due to vaccines is phenomenally lower than the incidence of death from the virus in all age groups and astronomically smaller in the older population.

3 The vaccine doesn't completely stop transmission of the virus but it does suppress transmission by more than any other single intervention, short of total isolation, at somewhere around 75 %. All other interventions apart from mask wearing have serious economic impacts so vaccines plus mask wearing are the most cost effective combination. Other interventions may be needed if those two are not sufficient but should be applied on a principle of causing least disruption first.

I think a moron, i.e. a term that is no longer used but used to be classed as a person with mild intellectual disability having a mental age of from 7 to 12 with an IQ of between 50 and 70, would actually be quite able to understand these benefits. My wife used to teach such people many years ago and the people she taught would have understood. Obviously an idiot, i.e. also a term that is no longer used but used to be classed as a person with profound intellectual disability having a mental age below three years with an IQ below 20 would not understand. My wife also taught people in this category for a time and they certainly would not have understood.

Warwick

PS The use of "over 10" in item 2 above should not be interpreted as the risks of vaccination being higher in the under 10 group BUT that the risks of COVID are virtually non-existent in that age group. The only reason for vaccinating that group would be to suppress spread even more and whether to do that or not certainly is a matter of opinion.

paul g
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:20 pm
Location: Nr. Kato Gouves

Re: unvaccinated

Postby paul g » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:06 pm

If a person has no allergy to the vaccination, then I believe it is their social responsibility to have it.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

TweetTweet brought up the anagram, omicron/moronic, I thought it fitted quite well.

TweetTweet
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:35 am

Re: unvaccinated

Postby TweetTweet » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:38 pm

Kilkis wrote:
TweetTweet wrote:paul g said:
"It's moronic to be unvaccinated."

What's your rationale paul?


The scientific data:

1 If you catch COVID and are vaccinated you are around 10 times less likely to become seriously ill and/or die than someone who is not vaccinated. No current drug either real, e.g. Remdesivir, Baricitinib, Tocilizumab, Dexamethasone, or combinations and monoclonal antibodies, or imaginary, e.g. Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, are as effective at preventing death as the vaccines.

2 The incidence of serious adverse side effects in all age groups over 10 are less than the incidence of serious illness and death from catching COVID. Generally the incidence of serious side effects is at around the 1 in a million level although it does vary from vaccine to vaccine. Only a small percentage of those who encounter serious side effects die so the incidence of death due to vaccines is phenomenally lower than the incidence of death from the virus in all age groups and astronomically smaller in the older population.

3 The vaccine doesn't completely stop transmission of the virus but it does suppress transmission by more than any other single intervention, short of total isolation, at somewhere around 75 %. All other interventions apart from mask wearing have serious economic impacts so vaccines plus mask wearing are the most cost effective combination. Other interventions may be needed if those two are not sufficient but should be applied on a principle of causing least disruption first.


hmmm, that would be YOUR so-called "scienticific" data...hmmm, not actually reality.


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