A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

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Kilkis
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby Kilkis » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:36 am

thebigbluecheese wrote:...You only have to look at the for sale or wanted pages for areas of Crete on Facebook to see how successful buying and selling cars , property , anything even ... I think the first port of call for many expats to buy or sell things in Crete now is Facebook ...


I'm not a Facebook user so I can't check for myself. Could you give a rough idea of how many properties and cars in Crete are being offered for sale on Facebook at the moment?

Personally if I wanted a used car I would start with car which is currently advertising 5,074 used cars on Crete. Some of those would be adverts from dealers so I would also look at the dealer's web site if one existed.

For a property, if I was in the UK, I think I might be inclined to try Rightmove where there are currently a little over 1,000 residential properties offered on Crete and you can filter by Nomos. They range from €11,000 to €3.8 million. I would probably try other UK sites like Zoopla etc although there is likely to be overlap. Back when I was looking to buy sites like Rightmove hadn't really established themselves in the foreign market but it wasn't hard to find local agents with properties to sell. The same is true today. Also Rightmove acts as a portal to local agents. The name of the agent is shown with each property listed so it wouldn't be difficult to find the agent's web site.

My son always says that there is no such thing as a bad market, only bad prices. All reports in the media suggest that property prices on average across Greece have dropped by about 50 % from their peak. Anybody who bought close to the peak and wishes to sell today would need to take a 50 % hit on what they paid. I suspect most people aren't prepared to do that. I don't know many properties that have sold but the ones I do know of sold for about 50 % of what the owner had paid, which tends to validate the media claims.

Warwick

Maud
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby Maud » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:58 pm

Interesting that three people on this thread have already expressed an interest in selling Warwick. I wonder how many more there are out there? - Maybe Richard's website wounld do better than I anticipate!

I have an Australian friend who is looking to buy a small house on Crete in the near future. I have suggested she looks on Rightmove, but have also 'spread the word' amongst Greek friends. It is a cheaper exercise without estate agents fees........and not all agents 'iron out the problems' of the purchase to earn their costs!

My advice to anyone moving to the island would be to rent first to get a 'feel' for the place. If they did that they probably would get to know the local agents and not have such a great need for a website to find a house! Renting is what my friend is going to do, - so Rightmove is just a 'touchstone' to get an idea of what is on offer. I think there are tough times ahead for anyone wanting to sell on the island, especially for those who bought at the peak of the housing market. Good luck to those that need/have to. It must be horrendous to HAVE to do It and be unable to do so.

scooby
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby scooby » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:39 pm

I really can't see the problem here. Any extra avenue where you may look to buy something of interest is surely good? As with every thread on here we do not need to completely dissect everything and it seems a pretty non argument that an extra website would not be beneficial.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Kilkis
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby Kilkis » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:58 pm

I don't think anybody is dissecting anything Scooby. You could argue if it sold one extra house or one extra car that wouldn't have sold without the site it has been beneficial. Setting up such a site, however, is a non-trivial exercise. Somebody is going to have to put considerable effort into constructing it, operating it and getting it exposure. Some of us are simply pointing out that it might not get the return such effort warrants. I could say to you that I had found you some work for six months and you would be delighted*. If I then said that I was going to pay you €10 at the end of the six months would you be as delighted?

It's pretty obvious that anybody trying to buy something or sell something is going to say, "Great idea, go ahead and do it". It costs them nothing and it might be of benefit to them. I've no skin in the game. I'm not trying to buy or sell anything. I am simply pointing out the potential pitfalls from a neutral point of view.

Maud wrote:...My advice to anyone moving to the island would be to rent first to get a 'feel' for the place. If they did that they probably would get to know the local agents and not have such a great need for a website to find a house! ...


Totally agree.

Maud wrote:...It must be horrendous to HAVE to do It and be unable to do so...


Again I totally agree but none of us can buck reality. I think we tend to get a bit ex-pat centric. The majority of the housing market here is Greeks buying from/selling to other Greeks. It is that bulk of the market that determines pricing. While many ex-pats might be buying with cash most Greeks, like most people in the UK, rely on borrowing money to buy a house. The Greek banks have around €100 billion in non-performing loans on their books, over 50 % of GDP. Typically the ratio of NPLs to total loan book is around 40 % and, in the case of Attica bank, around 60 % of their loan book is non-performing. The overall figure in the UK is 1.44 %. That really illustrates the scale of the problem. As long as that situation persists borrowing money is going to be difficult and few loans means few buyers. With many sellers and few buyers prices go down. Banks foreclosing on NPLs and putting the repossessed properties on the market to gain liquidity only exacerbates the situation. I don't see a quick solution.

Warwick

* Obviously you wouldn't be delighted but you could pretend for the sake of the argument.

SatCure
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby SatCure » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:56 pm

If you think such a web site might earn any significant money, prepare for disappointment.

There are already at least two Facebook groups and three forums where expats can advertise things for sale, without paying a cent.
The number of cars and houses sold via those routes each month is very small.

Adding an advertising web site will simply "dilute" an already sparse activity and very few people will pay.

I know several people who do not use the Internet at all.
I know several women who do not drive or refuse to.
Very few people are buying houses here now.

In short, the target market is very small indeed.

I, personally, would think twice about buying a car from another expat because I don't know all the bureaucratic "hoops" and I wouldn't expect the seller to, either. My preference would be a company such as "Supercars", which can be trusted to deal with all the necessary paperwork.

Just my opinion.

Mixos
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby Mixos » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:23 pm

It's an interesting idea, Kastri, but others have pointed out the challenges you might face. As a point of interest, a quick trawl through the "buying and selling in Crete" section further down the forum reveals only two houses offered for sale by ex-pats in the past year and only a handful of cars, bikes and boats. I would have thought this forum would have been an ideal site for buying and selling property, so perhaps the absence of them tells us something. (Or maybe, as Warwick points out, nobody is going to sell a property for half what they paid for it, unless they really have to, and that situation is unlikely to change any time soon.) However, it would be interesting to know if the two properties did sell and, if so, whether the buyers were from outside Crete.

Maud
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby Maud » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:38 pm

I don't think anyone was trying to dissect anything Scooby. - Kastri asked for opinions, and it is what we are all giving.... in an attempt to be helpful. It is a fact of life that anyone who has something to sell will think it is a good idea. - The website might benefit them! Kilkis, on the other hand, (who has no 'axe to grind'), has pointed out the cost and effort of setting up such a website, and the possible lack of users......as have others. - I believe Satcure and Mixos also realise this. We are all just trying to present a 'balanced view'.

I still believe that the cost and effort involved in setting up such a sight will not be profitable.......which I assume Richard is hoping for? I think from reading his previous post on other threads that he is 'new' to Kriti and is looking for helpful advice. Hopefully he has found some here.

kastri1961
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby kastri1961 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:56 pm

A massive thanks for all the feedback and based on the comments to date I still think it's an idea that "has legs". I accept that sticking with the property market makes more sense than attempting to include a handful of vehicles. A car section could always be added later as we developed more web traffic and if there was a demand.

In terms of the concept it would certainly have to work on a commercial basis moving forwards but if I can gather enough properties for sale or rent I am prepared to create a test site as mentioned. I am curious to see how communications would open up and see how the website visitor counts increase (or not!).

Plus just a general reminder this is not about cutting our or replacing local estate agents.
On the contrary if someone is selling their property and has appointed an estate agent we can list the estate agents contact details too.


I have been involved in all aspects of marketing for over 30 years and play a large part in the tech revolution with websites and social media communications. If such a project taps in to the right audience you would be amazed how quickly a "good new idea" can suddenly explode.

So are there any expats out there who are selling a property at the moment and would like it listing for free as part of some more specific market research via a mocked up website? If you are selling a property, even if you have appointed an agent, as long there is no conflict from the agents point of view, let's give it a try. In fact the estate agents could see this as a great independent platform for them to create more awareness of their business too.

The ultimate goal for everyone is selling the property. This concept can only assist that goal. The question is by how much could it assist which we could be debate for days but unless it's tested as a live website we will never really know.

So if I can get details of at least 6 properties to promote on the website for zero charge I am prepared to create a live website to test the concept. Reply privately if you prefer.

thebigbluecheese
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby thebigbluecheese » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:22 am

thebigbluecheese wrote:
...You only have to look at the for sale or wanted pages for areas of Crete on Facebook to see how successful buying and selling cars , property , anything even ... I think the first port of call for many expats to buy or sell things in Crete now is Facebook ...


Kilkis says ...... I'm not a Facebook user so I can't check for myself. Could you give a rough idea of how many properties and cars in Crete are being offered for sale on Facebook at the moment?

Hi kilkis.. there are many sites on Facebook where one can buy and or sell stuff on the island of Crete . Far too many for me to sift through and give numbers of how many are currently for sale . All I can say is that's the market on these sites is very buoyant ..

For satcure , a number of points ... there are far more than 2 Facebook sites covering Crete ... how do you know that Hardly any houses or cars are sold on Facebook ???? How do you know that hardly anyone is buying houses in Crete ???
Why wouldn't you buy a car from an expat ??? Just because you don't know the " system " doesn't mean to say that all expats don't know the system .... it's quite easy to buy and sell a car in Crete . I've done it loads of times

Kilkis
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby Kilkis » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:19 am

thebigbluecheese wrote:...there are many sites on Facebook where one can buy and or sell stuff on the island of Crete . Far too many for me to sift through and give numbers of how many are currently for sale ...


So, if I understand correctly, there isn't a single area of Facebook where you could go to and find advertised all the houses for sale on Crete? By "all" obviously I mean "all" the ones advertised on Facebook not "all" the ones that are for sale.

thebigbluecheese wrote:...Why wouldn't you buy a car from an expat ??? Just because you don't know the " system " doesn't mean to say that all expats don't know the system .... it's quite easy to buy and sell a car in Crete . I've done it loads of times


Completely agree. I bought my last car from an ex-pat. I didn't buy it because he was an ex-pat. I did it simply because he was selling exactly the car I wanted in "as new" condition at a sensible price. Isn't that how everybody makes choices? Incidentally it was advertised on this forum.

Neither of us had the foggiest idea how to transfer ownership but we discovered a magic method that couldn't be simpler. We got KEP to do it for us. We had the highly onerous task of going to the bank, paying a fee and giving the receipt back to KEP. Also had to sign some forms. I think most of us can manage to do that or, if you can't, some people can get spouses to do it for them? (You know who you are)

Warwick

thebigbluecheese
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby thebigbluecheese » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:13 am

Kilkis , I think there is a page on facebook just for property in Crete . If I remember right its called something like Crete property for sale or rent . I look mostley at For sale or wanted in Chania , for sale or wanted in rethymnon as they are close to me

nigeljackson5
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby nigeljackson5 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:17 am

There are two sites on f/b
1. Crete Properties For Sale or Rent
2. Properties for Sale or Rent
Hope this helps
Nigel

Jeffstclair
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby Jeffstclair » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:14 pm

There are many facebook pages for buying and selling cars, furniture,property on Crete ,and they seem to work very well .. the Bootfare Crete site did not last very long but I don't know why ...Jeff...

SatCure
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby SatCure » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:34 pm

thebigbluecheese wrote:For satcure , a number of points ... there are far more than 2 Facebook sites covering Crete .

I assume you mean Facebook Groups. I know of only one facebook site: facebook.com

Anyway, I stated "There are already at least two Facebook groups and three (Internet) forums".
You'll agree that the words "at least two" imply that there could be more. I can't dispute your assertion of "far more" - I'm simply unaware of them but feel free to list all the Facebook Groups and Internet forums that accept sales for Crete, of which you are aware.

The problem is that the more there are, the more diluted the information. People simply won't use (or even be aware of) them all. In this respect, one site would be ideal but the difficulty lies in killing off the existing (free) ones.

For the O.P.:
To give a feel for the potential market, I can tell you that I live in a fairly large village. During 2016, two houses sold in my street and two others are now for sale nearby. Assuming that there's possibly another couple that I don't know about, that's 6 a year in one large village of around 320 residents. Extrapolate from that to get an annual total for Crete.

You have to consider the fact that the sales are mostly of expat-owned properties, not Greek-owned. I can't find a figure for expats but I'd guess at around 25,000 (including summer visitors who own houses here). Extrapolating from that gets you only 78 house sales per year.

I'm sure that Warwick can improve upon this as he's better at maths and research than I am (and maybe more interested in doing it).

As the work involved in creating and, especially, maintaining a house sales site is non-trivial, you need to consider whether the potential number of sellers makes such an enterprise viable. I've looked at a similar business in the past and the time and cost of simply arranging an appointment to take photos* and take down the information was prohibitive. Ideally, you'd do most of the work via a web site form, arranged as a questionnaire, and an image upload facility, with provision for a site visit to take better photos as necessary and get a release signed.

*You probably don't need to be told that "borrowing" existing images from another site is a really bad idea from a legal standpoint.

Kilkis
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Re: A website listing British expat property and used cars for sale?

Postby Kilkis » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:21 am

SatCure wrote:...I'm sure that Warwick can improve upon this as he's better at maths and research than I am (and maybe more interested in doing it)...


Nope. No interest at all. Usually if I want to dispose of something that is still working I give it away, e.g. car, bike, monitor, and then it isn't normally difficult to find a "buyer". I have never had a problem finding stuff to buy and couldn't care less who or where I buy it from.

Warwick


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