Staying In

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
Kilkis
Posts: 8773
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Staying In

Postby Kilkis » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:03 pm

I agree, although it might take a bit of a domino effect in Italy first before Deutsch Bank gets hit. I think there is a bigger Italian bank that owns a pretty big German bank. I'm not sure of the details; it's not easy to unravel the web of international financial institutions. If the Monte dei Paschi problem spreads to other Italian banks then that is the most likely route for German contagion. It is also possible, however, that Deutsch bank has sufficient exposure directly to Monte dei Paschi debt through derivatives that it could suffer immediately. Hard to tell. It's certainly not as robust as the German government likes to pretend. If Deutsch bank fails everybody is in the doggy doos not just the German government

Warwik

Clio
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Staying In

Postby Clio » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:08 am


moved 2 crete
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:37 pm
Location: chania

Re: Staying In

Postby moved 2 crete » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:25 pm

Very depressing reading for those of us who rely on the reciprocal health agreement for our on going health requirements........ :cry:
Dave H

Istronian
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:38 am
Location: I live in Hope!

Re: Staying In

Postby Istronian » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:08 pm

I may well be wrong but I don't think the reciprocal healthcare arrangement is anything to do with EU membership.

The UK has these arrangements with many countries, including countries outside the EU, and they were negotiated with each country separately.

Ian

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Staying In

Postby Kilkis » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:16 pm

I agree that bi-lateral healthcare arrangements exist between the UK and countries outside the EU but, in the case of EU member states, I believe they are all through EU Directives such as Directive 2011/24/EU. There are many others. For example the EHIC and Form S1 are EU wide, including EEA and Switzerland, but don't apply outside that area. Either the negotiation process would need to agree that the provisions of the relevant Directives should continue in force, possibly modified in some way, or, at the end of the process, the arrangements would cease to be valid. If an agreement on continuing these arrangements cannot be reached between the UK government and the rest of the EU as a whole then I think, under EU law, member states would not be allowed to negotiate bi-lateral deals with the UK.

The same would be true of all rights granted under EU Directives. Either they are maintained as part of the negotiating process or they cease and cannot be replaced by bi-lateral ones. As far as I am aware bi-lateral agreements in force before the EU came into existence, like the Double Taxation Agreement, can continue but member states are forbidden from negotiating new bi-lateral deals on virtually anything.

I don't think the proposed idea of allowing UK citizens rights of residence would include anything about things like healthcare even if it did come into force. The two are separate issues.

Warwick

bobscott
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Staying In

Postby bobscott » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:20 pm

Kilkis wrote:
I don't think the proposed idea of allowing UK citizens rights of residence would include anything about things like healthcare even if it did come into force. The two are separate issues.

Warwick


Warwick. I suppose it depends on what is meant by 'rights of residence'. A right of residence could include health care equivalent to what the Greeks get (as of now) but given that the Greek Health service can claim back costs of treating other EU citizens from their countries of citizenship (if they can be bothered),that would have to be part of the agreement. I don't think the UK would want to buy into that after Brexit.

In any case, I don't think that the idea of buying 'rights of residence' has any legs and is not likely to run anywhere except into the sand. All 27 countries would have to agree and I haven't seen any pigs flying lately!
Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

scooby
Posts: 1094
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm
Location: Agia Nr Chania

Re: Staying In

Postby scooby » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:57 pm

So we are going to debate what if's and but's for a couple of years are we.
Men in suits will always make you pay.

Kilkis
Posts: 8773
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Staying In

Postby Kilkis » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:33 am

If people in authority make statements about things that will directly affect my life then yes, I do want to debate that particular issue. Debating what the Brexit negotiation will produce is indeed futile. Debating specific new proposals has some merit. Unless, of course, you don't care what the outcome is.

In theory Bob, you are correct that any proposal could cover anything. The point I was making is that we have right of residence under one EU Directive. We have right of healthcare under a completely different Directive. The proposal being made, as far as I can see, is only about right of residence. There would need to be another proposal to take care of healthcare and I don't see any sign of that. Allowing residence doesn't really cost the government anything. Providing healthcare does.

Warwick

Maud
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: S.W. England/ S.W. Crete.

Re: Staying In

Postby Maud » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:02 pm

EU citizens should collect proof of living in UK, says Helena Kennedy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

Needs reading through to pick out the bits about UK citizens living in the EU.


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