Associate membership proposal

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Blighty
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Associate membership proposal

Postby Blighty » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:48 am

Some more regarding associate citizenship options for Brits.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 62416.html

Kilkis
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby Kilkis » Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:03 pm

Whatever happens in the Brexit negotiations people will still move between countries. They moved for centuries before the EU ever existed and they will continue to move when the EU is a footnote in history. Moving from country to country does pose practical problems for the people who move. What happens to their pension rights? What happens to their healthcare? What happens to their right to own property? etc etc. The EU has developed a set of pretty good and fair rules that aim to address these practical problems. It would be a crying shame for all EU citizens if those rules got lost for political expediency in the negotiating process. I think protecting these reciprocal rules should be top of the negotiators agenda.

As an aside I heard a comment recently from somebody who was involved in the drafting of Article 50. He said that above all else Article 50 was about money. What is the leaving country going to pay and for how long? What are its commitments? Everything else is secondary. I'm not sure the UK government has quite caught on to that yet.

Warwick

Kilkis
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby Kilkis » Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:54 pm

For those that are interested, the BBC have been running a series of 15 minute programmes called, "Bexit: A Guide for the Perplexed" that is available on BBC Radio iPlayer. Each programme discusses a particular aspect of the process. For those that are not interested, please just ignore this post. It doesn't require a response from either group.

Warwick

bobscott
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby bobscott » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:32 pm

Didn't think I could get BBC I player without a proxy VPN but your link got me straight in. Listened to all the ones broadcast so far and looking forward to next week. Well presented. VMT Warwick. Bob
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby Kilkis » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:37 pm

You can't get BBC iPlayer, which streams the TV programmes, without a VPN. You have always been able to get BBC Radio iPlayer no problem at all. As far as I can tell the only difficulty with radio over the Internet is with Radio 5 Live and then only when they are broadcasting the commentary of some sporting event.

Warwick

bobscott
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby bobscott » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:47 pm

Yeah, well, it's a cold Saturday night and a glass of Talisker is called for. Perhaps then thing will fall into their proper perspective! Thanks Warwick.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby Kilkis » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:54 pm

Having run out of cheap scotch and brandy I was just wondering whether to open a bottle of Glenmorangie or a bottle of Remy Martin, both of which have been sat unopened in the drinks cupboard for an extraordinary length of time. Alternatively I could just use up some of the Captain Morgan rum? Decisions decisions.

Warwick

Mackie
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby Mackie » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:10 pm


bobscott
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby bobscott » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:32 pm

Mackie wrote:Today in the Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 78061.html


Some pretty puerile and vicious comments after the article. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

YoMo2
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby YoMo2 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:25 pm

Ermm. Why would the EU make such a major concession to the UK? So, we can leave the EU and retain all the free movement rights? Have our cake and eat it? Don't think so. Maybe as a reciprocal concession to get something they want in the negotiation.

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

bobscott
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby bobscott » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:49 am

Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

Kilkis
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:38 am

Mankind had millions of years living in small family/tribal groups. In that context it has only been over pretty recent history that much larger social groupings, such as the the nation state and even larger federal systems, have evolved. When resources are plentiful the family/tribal group will happily live in close proximity to other family/tribal groups and even intermingle/cooperate but when resources become scarce each group will defend their territory in order to secure their share of those resources. You can see the same psychology in the development of the EU. When the economies of the developed world were expanding rapidly and there was no shortage of resources the people in one member state were pretty relaxed about cooperating with and even helping another member state. As resources become scarce, as they have since the financial crash, then that cooperative spirit evaporates very rapidly. You could see it in the rhetoric of the referendum and in the views that are proliferating in a wide range of EU countries.

We are rapidly reaching a time when everybody alive will have never experienced a war in Europe. That tends to lead to the belief that peace in Europe is the norm. History shows that war in Europe is the norm and periods of peace are pretty brief interludes. While some on this forum view the breakdown of the EU with glee I view it with trepidation. While I fully agree that the way the EU is constructed is ludicrous I still think its existence is a benefit. I hope this does lead to a restructuring of how the EU functions but I fear that the things that need to be done are not the things that the leaders will agree to.

Warwick

Phild
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby Phild » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:55 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with Warwick.

I also believe that atomisation of states is a step backwards, and is counter-productive when it comes to dealing with the big issue in the world today - namely "Resources" - 8 people in the world have garnered half of the wealth of the world (according to an Oxfam report in January 2017).

Now, I don't mind if rich people are rich, but that does tend to mean that, at the other extreme, a lot of people are poor. According to the world bank's latest figures over 10% of the world lives on less than $1.90 per day.

The only way to redress this ridiculously unbalanced situation is to have some form of global governance, to make sure that the rich don't get any richer (do they really need to sit on all of that cash?) and the poor have something to eat every day.
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Phil
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Kilkis
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:12 pm

Also it has gone from 62 people owning 50 % of the world's wealth to 8 owning it in one year, although part of that is a reassessment of how little the poorest 50 % actually own especially in countries like India and China.

Warwick

bobscott
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Re: Associate membership proposal

Postby bobscott » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:03 pm

Phild wrote:
The only way to redress this ridiculously unbalanced situation is to have some form of global governance, to make sure that the rich don't get any richer (do they really need to sit on all of that cash?) and the poor have something to eat every day.


I take it you're not advocating that as a serious proposition? Ideal perhaps but not a snowflake in hell's chance of coming to fruition this side of the Apocalypse.

The link shows that at long last, someone as august as the President of the European Commission is prepared to suggest (!) that things in the way the European Union is organised, might need to change.

Isn't that what the referendum in the UK was all about, and the far-right in France, etc?

Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!


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