Thought we'd seen the back of him

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YoMo2
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Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby YoMo2 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:26 am

I suppose it was inevitable that Blair would find some way to crawl back into the limelight.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38996179

But, really, full credit to him. What a great idea! Insult the EU club by telling them we want out, then crawl back to say we changed our minds. We'd get royally stitched up for ever more. Brilliant!

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

moggieman
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby moggieman » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:27 pm

No you will never see the back of him if theres a few ££££££ to be made. Should be in prison by now. !!!!

Loves the limelight to much to know when to crawl away and hide

Mackie
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby Mackie » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:30 pm

I don't like the guy for various reasons and think he is as much of a clown as the lot of them but, he makes a good argument and the markets clearly responded to his speech this morning :roll:

peebee
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby peebee » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:51 pm

T Blair is just looking out for T Blair IMO.
I'm sure he is got some form of benefit lined up, from the UK staying in.

moved 2 crete
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby moved 2 crete » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:53 pm

Obviously Blair hater postings, but the man did 2 terms of office, so the people must have enjoyed a certain amount of confidence in his tenure, having said that personally felt he was too far right, but in this case, he has hit the nail on the head and stuck his head over the parapet and is doing more than most to address the problem that making the case that a hard Brexit is going to damage all that has been accomplished in the past 40 odd years, and making the case that a soft Brexit properly negotiated withdrawal from the EU is needed, unlike Mrs May who favours a hard Brexit and will take whatever transpires then try to fix it, leaving us Expats who live permanently here in Crete/Greece high and dry....................
Dave H

peebee
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby peebee » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:00 pm

moved 2 crete wrote:a hard Brexit is going to damage all that has been accomplished in the past 40 odd years

How do you know it will ?

YoMo2
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby YoMo2 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:12 pm

peebee wrote:
moved 2 crete wrote:a hard Brexit is going to damage all that has been accomplished in the past 40 odd years

How do you know it will ?


Exactly. Blair's opinion is no more likely to be true than anyone else's. Nobody knows.

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

frankmand
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby frankmand » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:12 pm

peebee wrote:
moved 2 crete wrote:a hard Brexit is going to damage all that has been accomplished in the past 40 odd years

How do you know it will ?

How do YOU know it won't?

TweetTweet
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby TweetTweet » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:31 pm

Exactly. Blair's opinion is no more likely to be true than anyone else's. Nobody knows

His "opinion" re Iraq regime's *weapons of mass destruction* wasn't true ....but *irrevalencies* don't appear to have ever deterred megalomaniacs/despot/psychopath personalities/entities.

(For me) Tony Blair and the Bush dross are absoutely directly responsible for the (accelerated) very dreadful state of the world today. I would say they didn't start it but they lit the tinder. Maybe that is what this current load of us humans need, who knows?

filippos
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby filippos » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:49 pm

frankmand wrote:
peebee wrote:
moved 2 crete wrote:a hard Brexit is going to damage all that has been accomplished in the past 40 odd years
How do you know it will ?
How do YOU know it won't?

peebee didn't claim to know. As TweetTweet has now said "nobody knows".

How can anyone know? Whatever happens will depend completely on future events. Do you have a crystal ball? I don't.

Apropos of Blair he's possibly thinking that if he can swing the UK to change the out decision he might gain enough popularity to become President Blair in a new republican Britain. To me that's a repugnant thought. Alternatively, he'll be in line for EU president ready to board the biggest gravy train in the western world.

Brian
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby Brian » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:14 am

For goodness sake wise up and remove the blinkers before you fall into the Brexit abyss. The message is what matters. Blair's argument, for the most part, was irrefutable and brilliantly delivered.
Blair knew what to expect from the nay- sayers but for anyone who was prepared to hear him out he made an ironclad case for remaining in the EU.
Blair made mistakes, but he had some success. His contribution to the Northern Ireland peace process was enormous, and we in Ireland will be forever grateful to him for this contribution..
Finally , Churchill , most people will agree one of Britain's great PMs had his foibles, some serious, but when history called 'Cometh the hour, cometh the man' his war-time heroics are what is recalled now and is the great eternal legacy he bequeathed to British posterity.

Yin&Yang
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby Yin&Yang » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:48 am

Well said Brian.
Someday is now : )

Kilkis
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby Kilkis » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:47 am

Brian wrote:... he made an ironclad case for remaining in the EU...


I'm sorry but I do not believe there is an "ironclad case" to be made for remaining in the EU, Brian, and I'm someone who believed we should remain. There are consequences if we remain and consequences if we leave and in both cases they are both good and bad. In reality it is even difficult to class them as good or bad since what one person believes is good another believes is bad. How can there ever be an ironclad case in that situation. I didn't bother watching his speech because I have no interest in his opinions but I suspect "ironclad" means he presented views that agree with your own?

There is one thing we can know with some certainty. Anyone who talks about being able to negotiate free trade agreements with countries outside the EU but the UK remaining in the single market and the customs union is talking spheroids. The UK cannot have the freedom to negotiate trade deals with countries outside the EU and still remain within the single market and the customs union. That is irrespective of free movement of people, contributions to the budget or obeying EU regulations. It is totally contrary to what a customs union means. Goods move completely freely within the EU. There are no checks, no paperwork and no tariffs of any kind. A factory in Birmingham can send goods to Frankfurt as easily as it sends them to Sheffield. Any agreement with a country outside the EU has to be with the whole EU. Imagine the situation where the USA sends goods to the EU but has to pay a 10 % tariff to whichever country they enter through. Now suppose the UK does a trade deal with the USA that says the USA can send those goods to the UK tariff free, presumably in exchange for the UK being able to send something to the USA tariff free. If the UK remains within the single market and the customs union those goods could then move on to any other country in the EU, i.e. a deal for one country is effectively a deal for all whether they want it or not. That is the reality of how single markets and customs unions work.

Warwick

Mackie
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby Mackie » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:35 pm

I have no doubt that he has his own agenda but I still think he has put his case across very well and answered the questions satisfactorily. He did not say anything substantially new however to what him and Major said before.

We voted to remain as we are great believers of any alliance (not just the European project).The damage(most of it) has already been done and it's time to just get on with it and get the best deal possible whatever that is.

I have worked now for nearly 30 years for international companies (not anymore as of this week) and the initial shock of the Brixit result has passed with minimal impact (the £ was over valued and everyone knew that), businesss are used to having to adapt to changes, new plans are drawn in many industries, new alliances being formed behind the scene within large organaizations and the innovative British spirit will triumph again.

I am actually very optimistic

Cheers

Maud
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Re: Thought we'd seen the back of him

Postby Maud » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:58 pm

I agree with all that is written above re the single market, and I never thought I would have a positive word to say about Blair, but there are a few things I feel I must take issue with here. Firstly, I did listen to his speech. I am never happy unless I hear both sides of an argument.

Everything Warwick has said above is correct. However, the gist of Blair's speech, (and I hasten to stress that he had no suggestion at this stage as to how to bring it about!), was that many Brexit voters chose to leave the EU on promises that are not necessarily going to be fulfilled. Many people voted for Brexit, not because it would make the UK richer, but because they were dissatisfied with their own lives. - Hence the immigration issue meaning less jobs for British people, no doctor's appointments because too many immigrants were 'filling up' the UK etc.They did not think about the £ devaluing, - even if it might benefit export trade for the UK"- They didn't realise that a devalued £ was going to mean their income would drop and imported goods would become more expensive.

This week we have seen inflation rise in the UK, the £ devalue, (I agree...it was too high before....but that doesn't change the fact that Brexit is making it drop now!), and the NHS is in crisis. Blairs speech was about people reviewing matters now that the outcome of a Brexit is beginning to become clearer. None of us know what that will be, but there are already some things we know cannot happen.

Blair rightly said that we all make decisions in life, which later on we might regret. It takes a strong person to admit they have made a mistake. However, contrary to a politician I saw on 'Question Time' a couple of weeks ago, stating she had yet to see anyone who would change their mind about voting for Brexit, there has been quite a few leave voters interviewed recently who have expressed regrets about how they voted. They all make the comments that Brexit for them was about 'taking back control'......more jobs, more money to spend on the NHS etc, and they thought this was going to happen sooner rather than later. Now all they hear about are trade deals whilst they see their income falling in real terms.

Blair has been criticised by pro Brexit MP's (Boris for one), for 'talking down' to people, and accusing them of not being very bright,- hence not knowing what they were voting for. Such talk is disgraceful. It is an attack on Blair because he has a good point. This is not about the intelligence of voters, it is about the fact people were misled in their beliefs as to how Brexit was going to change their lives over the next few years. - People were not interested in what was going to happen in twenty years time....especially the older generation, many of whom were big supporters of Brexit!

Blair made this point as a person who had no political party to defend, no job to lose, - but also no clear answer to the problem! Brexit MP's are already claiming Blair is doing this for his own benefit....to get back in to politics etc. Maybe this is true, but his 'message' is correct, and it is clear that many Brexit voters are now unsure that they have done the right thing. This matter should not be dismissed, just because we don't like the messenger!

There was an interesting 'correction' made Radio 4's PM Programme yesterday. They said that a while ago they had reported that when the UK leaves the EU, pensioners living abroad would continue to be able to have their pensions paid abroad as usual. The comment yesterday said that they had made a mistake is stating that, and that of course nothing was certain until matters had been negotiated between the EU and the UK. - So much uncertainty for everyone just now!

Sorry Mackie, your post above has been added whilst I have been writing mine....so I have repeated some of your comments. Like you, I now look forward and hope for the best.


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