LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

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BST
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby BST » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:42 pm

Like others we have so far paid for routine visits to Doctors, Consultants and medicine apart from an operation I had on my EHIC card. The worry is that if there was a need for an operation or long term expensive treatment in the future, would it be covered? If the UK Gov rule that you have to be in the UK more than 183 days to receive any sort of NHS cover then we would have a very serious decision to make. I wonder how many other expats would be "forced" to reluctantly return to the UK if that happened? Anyone wish to guess?

YoMo2
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby YoMo2 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:31 am

BST wrote:....... If the UK Gov rule that you have to be in the UK more than 183 days to receive any sort of NHS cover then we would have a very serious decision to make.


Why would they do that? Has this been suggested?

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

Kilkis
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:32 am

According to NHS Guidance on Moving Abroad you already automatically lose the right to healthcare under the NHS when you permanently move abroad because it is a residency based qualification:

"If you are moving abroad on a permanent basis, you will no longer automatically be entitled to medical treatment under normal NHS rules. This is because the NHS is a residence-based healthcare system. You’ll have to notify your GP so that you and your family can be removed from the NHS register."

The main exception to this is for UK State Pensioners who get healthcare in their EU country of residence through an S1 form which is an EU wide healthcare agreement implemented through an EU Directive. Unless the UK - EU Brexit deal includes a continuation of this agreement then this cover would disappear.

The EHIC card is also issued under an EU Directive so, again, unless the UK - EU Brexit deal includes a continuation of this agreement then this cover would disappear. The guidance also states:

"Most people will no longer be entitled to use their UK-issued European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) to access healthcare in Europe, however there are a few exceptions. Read our EHIC guide for more detailed information."

Whether your move abroad is permanent or not is quite complicated and is not simply based on an 183 day rule although that might also be taken into account. UK government advice on ordinary residence depends on a number of issues. Really it is an issue of you proving that you are still permanently resident rather than the government proving that you aren't. If you live abroad all year with only brief visits to the UK and have no house in the UK to which you can return at any time, i.e. it is not let on a long term lease, then I think they would reject the claim to be permanently resident.

Warwick

Jeffstclair
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby Jeffstclair » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:51 pm

Yes that is how it works now Warwick ..I know someone under 65 who returned to the UK after living abroad for ten years and was refused treatment at an NHS hospital.. even after paying in to the NI scheme for most of their working life ....and being referred by their old GP...

Dinksy
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby Dinksy » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:06 pm

Kilkis wrote:I discovered yesterday, through a conversation with a friend, that some (perhaps all?) accountants are registering their clients as non-tax resident in Greece by the simple expedient of stating that they are resident in Greece for less than 183 days per year.

While we still have no idea what the outcome of the Brexit negotiations will be, a common theme in various interviews has been that foreign nationals who have lived in a country for some defined period of time should be allowed to stay. Whether that will be agreed, or what the period will be if it is agreed, I have no idea BUT claiming NOT to be resident in Greece for more than 183 days in each year may impact on the ability to prove long term residence? Since this is the time of year when people tend to have meetings with their accountants, anybody who is registered as non-tax resident might find it useful to ask on what basis they are registered as non-tax resident?

I want to stress that I do not know if tax residency status will be a factor in determining long term residency or suggest that this will be a problem BUT it might and at least forewarned is forearmed. I suspect that many people have no idea how their accountant is declaring them as non-tax resident. It might be prudent to find out.




I had a chat with the famous George Atsalakis about being non tax resident here and he has told us that as our lawyer obtained our tax numbers for us then we are classified as non resident for tax purposes. The law in Greece states we can stay here more than 183 days per year as we are classified as on long term holiday. He does not think Brexit will change our status in Greece as this law currently also applies to Norwegians and Swiss people. He also advises us not to get involved with the Greek tax system as it is currently far too expensive for our pocket.
Never mind the quality, feel the width.

YoMo2
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby YoMo2 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:43 pm

Jeffstclair wrote:Yes that is how it works now Warwick ..I know someone under 65 who returned to the UK after living abroad for ten years and was refused treatment at an NHS hospital.. even after paying in to the NI scheme for most of their working life ....and being referred by their old GP...


Interesting Jeff. Was there some explanation of this ruling? Seems odd, unless they had no utility bills etc to prove residence.

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

Kilkis
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby Kilkis » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:20 pm

I am aware, Dinksy, that George Atsalakis has sent email guidance notes saying the 183 day rule does not apply if the person is here for "health, touristic or other personal reasons". It does not surprise me, therefore, if he is using that clause to class long term residents as not tax resident. It looks like some accountants are not aware of that clause or are declaring people as being here for less than 183 days for some other reason, e.g. possibly because it is easier?

The second document I linked in an earlier post contains the following, Jeff:

    If a person has already lived here for three years or more, it should normally be accepted that they are ordinarily resident. (This does not mean that people who have lived here for less than three years are necessarily not ordinarily resident. A person can be ordinarily resident from the first day they arrive in the United Kingdom if they have genuinely come to make their home here.

When my late wife and I contemplated returning to the UK a friend obtained advice from her health centre that if we declared that we had returned to live in the UK permanently we would be eligible for treatment. If people have given up their NHS card and had their records returned to the NHS I would suggest phoning/writing to the NHS explaining that they had returned to the UK to live permanently and ask the NHS to re-issue their NHS card so that they can re-register with a GP. I cannot guarantee it will work but it seems logical. It would also result in Greek healthcare obtained through an S1 form being cancelled so it wouldn't be a good idea to use this as a trick to get treatment in the UK and then returning to Greece.

Warwick

Jeffstclair
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby Jeffstclair » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:27 pm

YoMo2 wrote:
Jeffstclair wrote:Yes that is how it works now Warwick ..I know someone under 65 who returned to the UK after living abroad for ten years and was refused treatment at an NHS hospital.. even after paying in to the NI scheme for most of their working life ....and being referred by their old GP...


Interesting Jeff. Was there some explanation of this ruling? Seems odd, unless they had no utility bills etc to prove residence.

Andrew

Yes it was no proof of residence ,on a visit to the UK to visit an aged parent .. so no utility bills...

Kilkis
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby Kilkis » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:37 am

Jeffstclair wrote:...on a visit to the UK to visit an aged parent ...


I think that is the key phrase. NHS treatment is intended for people who are ordinarily resident. If they had lied and said that they had relocated back to the UK permanently to look after an aged parent and that they didn't have any utility bills because they were living with the parent and all bills were in the parent's name they might have got away with it. No guarantees but a higher probability.

Warwick

YoMo2
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Re: LIVE FACEBOOK Q & A

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:07 am

Agreed, Warwick. Jeff, your post was a bit misleading. "Returned to the UK after living abroad" sounded like a permanent return. If they were just visiting, it's not surprising they were refused treatment.

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"


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