Plastic Bag Charges

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Carolina
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Plastic Bag Charges

Postby Carolina » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:55 pm

Some good news for the environment - Greece to bring in plastic bag charges at supermarkets etc in 2018

www.haniotika-nea.gr/telos-apo-to-2018- ... i-sakoula/ (in Greek)

bobscott
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby bobscott » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:50 pm

It will be interesting to see which kind of plastic bags attract the charges Carol. My guess is that the transparent flimsy ones will continue to be free, but maybe the 'carrier bag' sort will attract the charge. Good news, nevertheless! Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

altohb
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby altohb » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:26 pm

It might just stop retailers insisting you have a bag, even when one isn't necessary, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby filippos » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:39 pm

So now we'll have to buy bin bags instead of recycling the carrier bags. I know someone in the UK who buys a pack of bin bags of whatever size he needs and makes it the first item at the checkout then opens it and uses one or more of the bags to pack the rest of his shopping. He's always maintained that he does this because the whole problem is being tackled from the wrong place. What's needed is to stop people discarding the bags (and other litter) wherever they please.

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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby bobscott » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:49 pm

altohb wrote:It might just stop retailers insisting you have a bag, even when one isn't necessary, but I'm not holding my breath.


Saying 'No thank you' works! Even better if you have your own shopping bag to hand. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

bobscott
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby bobscott » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:56 pm

filippos wrote: What's needed is to stop people discarding the bags (and other litter) wherever they please.


When you have finished with your plastic bag, what do you recommend doing with it? It doesn't degrade, you wouldn't want to burn it, you can't eat it, so just what DO you do with it?

Put it in the recycling bin, of course. And for those who don't know what one of those is, it is the BLUE bin.

By the way, the latest from ΔΕΔΙΣΑ, the waste management authority on the Akrotiri which takes all of the Chania prefecture waste, they can now sift through the green bins as well looking for recyclables, thanks to the upgrade to optical sorting methods. Good news.

To keep up to date with developments in waste treatment, try subscribing (free) to the monthly Apokoronas Environment & Nature News. Contact the Apokoronas Environment Group on [url]environment1939@gmail.com[/url]
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

bobscott
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby bobscott » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:59 pm

Why didn't the url in my previous post come out as a clickable link? Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

bobscott
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby bobscott » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:03 pm

bobscott wrote:Why didn't the url in my previous post come out as a clickable link? Bob.


To keep up to date with developments in waste treatment, try subscribing (free) to the monthly Apokoronas Environment & Nature News. Contact the Apokoronas Environment Group on environment1939@gmail.com

OK, so it's not a url. Sorry folks! Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

filippos
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby filippos » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:55 pm

bobscott wrote:When you have finished with your plastic bag, what do you recommend doing with it? It doesn't degrade, you wouldn't want to burn it, you can't eat it, so just what DO you do with it?
Is it any less degradable than the plastic bin liners I now have to buy? Also, I read somewhere a few months ago that supermarket type plastic bags are now available in bio-degradable form in three "speeds" of degrading although all somewhat slower than, say, paper.
Are the bags recyclable? If not why are they being separated and baled at the Akrotiri plant? Destined for landfill? Incineration? I should have asked during my tour of the facility in March.
When asked "What's the most difficult problem you have to overcome? Panagiotis Xazirakis, the recycling plant's chief chemical engineer, gave a one word answer, "People".

bobscott
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby bobscott » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:31 am

filippos wrote:
bobscott wrote:When you have finished with your plastic bag, what do you recommend doing with it? It doesn't degrade, you wouldn't want to burn it, you can't eat it, so just what DO you do with it?
Is it any less degradable than the plastic bin liners I now have to buy? Also, I read somewhere a few months ago that supermarket type plastic bags are now available in bio-degradable form in three "speeds" of degrading although all somewhat slower than, say, paper.
Are the bags recyclable? If not why are they being separated and baled at the Akrotiri plant? Destined for landfill? Incineration? I should have asked during my tour of the facility in March.
When asked "What's the most difficult problem you have to overcome? Panagiotis Xazirakis, the recycling plant's chief chemical engineer, gave a one word answer, "People".[/quote

The Kokkino Horio minimarket used alleged bio-degradble plastic bags for a while last year, but I think they are expensive for retailers to buy and then give away. Haven't heard about three 'speeds' of degradation nor seen any evidence of them in the supermarkets. All plastic products, bags, bottles etc are a big environmental problem and a move to paper where possible would be preferable. No of course I am not advocating paper bottles (before someone jumps in with that one!). Merely saying that more easily degradable packaging is preferable to plastic.

My understanding of the baling of plastic bags (et al) is that they are then sold on for further processing/use in the manufacturing world. Just like compressed and baled bottles, tin cans, paper and cardboard, etc. The money they get back helps fund improvements at ΔΕΔΙΣΑ which, I am sure they told you on your visit, is a not-for-profit organisation.

Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

filippos
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby filippos » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:31 pm

bobscott wrote:All plastic products, bags, bottles etc are a big environmental problem and a move to paper where possible would be preferable. No of course I am not advocating paper bottles (before someone jumps in with that one!).
That may be true at the disposal end but paper bags, for example are rather less environmentally friendly at the manufacturing and transportation end of the chain. Paper bags consume far more resources than plastic ones which are manufactured largely from oil field waste which if not used would be burned off at the well heads. Paper bags are manufactured from wood pulp which may or may not be created from waste from manufacturing of wood products or recycled wood products or recycled paper products. Whatever the source material the processes involved use large amounts of energy in manufacturing. Paper bags, size for size, are heavier and bulkier than plastic ones so transportation costs rise and greater storage facilities are needed at the delivery point. Fewer bags being carried per load means more loads are needed meaning more lorry trips creating more diesel pollutants are discharged to the atmosphere and slightly more wear on roads. I don't think that's particularly environmentally friendly overall.
You've also answered your own question about what do we do with the surplus plastic bags when we have re-used as many as possible: "...they are then sold on for further processing/use in the manufacturing world." Isn't that win, win, win? Plastic bags manufactured from oil industry by-products that would otherwise be wasted, re-used at least once by consumers and any surplus sold on for other recycling. The problem is much more irresponsible people rather than the materials.

bobscott
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby bobscott » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:29 am

filippos wrote:
bobscott wrote:All plastic products, bags, bottles etc are a big environmental problem and a move to paper where possible would be preferable. No of course I am not advocating paper bottles (before someone jumps in with that one!).
That may be true at the disposal end but paper bags, for example are rather less environmentally friendly at the manufacturing and transportation end of the chain. Paper bags consume far more resources than plastic ones which are manufactured largely from oil field waste which if not used would be burned off at the well heads. Paper bags are manufactured from wood pulp which may or may not be created from waste from manufacturing of wood products or recycled wood products or recycled paper products. Whatever the source material the processes involved use large amounts of energy in manufacturing. Paper bags, size for size, are heavier and bulkier than plastic ones so transportation costs rise and greater storage facilities are needed at the delivery point. Fewer bags being carried per load means more loads are needed meaning more lorry trips creating more diesel pollutants are discharged to the atmosphere and slightly more wear on roads. I don't think that's particularly environmentally friendly overall.
You've also answered your own question about what do we do with the surplus plastic bags when we have re-used as many as possible: "...they are then sold on for further processing/use in the manufacturing world." Isn't that win, win, win? Plastic bags manufactured from oil industry by-products that would otherwise be wasted, re-used at least once by consumers and any surplus sold on for other recycling. The problem is much more irresponsible people rather than the materials.


You are right, of course Phil. And the introduction of a charge is designed to make people think about just chucking bags away but reusing them. Sadly, the words chucking away are indicative of the problem. If they all went in the blue recycling bins, that would help solve the problem. But drive around and see the plastic bags blowing in the wind. And here on the coast, they do get into the sea. Education, Education, Education as they say. At the end of the day I think I would rather eat a fish that has swallowed paper than one that has swallowed plastic! Of course, I would rather eat one that hasn't swallowed anything except water and genuine fish fodder!!


Meanwhile, eschew all plastic bags,take your own shopping bag with you and REFUSE to accept a plastic one. We are the customers; it's our choice.
Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

SatCure
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Re: Plastic Bag Charges

Postby SatCure » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:41 pm

I always carry at least one plastic bag in my pocket. My wife carries a lightweight cloth bag, which folds into itself to make a very small pouch.

bobscott wrote:Why didn't the url in my previous post come out as a clickable link? Bob.

Well, this is off-topic and you already answered it but I'd like to mention that exposing an email address in public is likely to get it "skimmed" and used for spam: either to deliver spam to that address or to use it as a "from" address to deliver spam to others. It might never happen but why take the risk? (The exception is if you use a "throw-away" email address.)

I never expose my own email address (or anyone else's). If I want to invite contact I give a URL, such as this:
http://www.satcure.co.uk/email_me.htm

(If anyone wants the html and php scripts to add something similar to their site, I'd be happy to help.)


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