Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

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raw
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Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby raw » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:08 pm

Yesterday we traveled from the Corinth to Piraeus and took the ferry over to Heraklion.
Whilst driving through Athens we were shocked to see so many homeless people, living in tents under flyovers. But worse was to come, we drove into a Lidl car park and actually saw families living in vans and trucks. Not just the odd sad case, but there were dozens of people, The children were like urchins, filthy, in rags. I wonder how this could happen. We are in Europe, we are in the breast of civilization, I feel sick to the core.
We are over to consider if Crete is our future, to consider Greece against living in France, where we have lived for 14 years. Nothing could have prepared us for the sights we saw. I find myself wondering what the hell we are doing here.
We have visited Greece and her islands for 25 years, having stayed in various locations for 5 months last year. However returning this year, which is just 7 months since we were here last the country seems to have fallen off a cliff. It was shocking last year, but my goodness, what a mess......
We are going to rent for 6 months, see what we think. I love Greece, the Greek people, but can I cope with what has happened to this beautiful place?

Carolina
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby Carolina » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:40 am

What's happened to Greece? It has been crushed by the ECB, IMF, EC for seven years and more recently, by the refugee crisis. Austerity, homeless, refugees .. the plight of many people in Greece is tragic and it''s more obvious in and around the poorer areas of Athens and Piraeus, for example there are still hundreds of refugees still being 'housed' at Piraeus port and there are many homeless Greeks around Athens too.

Crete has escaped the refugee crisis, and the homelessness to some extent, although there are also homeless people in Crete's towns, they are not so many as in the big cities on the mainland.

Kilkis
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby Kilkis » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 am

Carolina wrote:What's happened to Greece? It has been crushed by the ECB, IMF, EC ...


I would add to that list politicians, especially finance ministers but also leaders, from EU member states who know the truth but cannot admit it to their own voters. Personally I would put them first.

Warwick

Jean
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby Jean » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:13 pm

I would add to that list politicians, especially finance ministers but also leaders, from EU member states who know the truth but cannot admit it to their own voters. Personally I would put them first.

Spot on!

filippos
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby filippos » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:30 pm

Hear, hear!

TweetTweet
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby TweetTweet » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:56 pm

If you would like to kow more then please read Yannis Varoufakis's book entitled *Adults in the Room*.

Due to his personal experiences, (and I would say because he is a very good and decent human being anyway), he was not prepared to sell his soul to the devil.

He had a plan that could have enabled this country to have returned to being true to itself whilst at the same time clearly understanding that the disgustingly corrupt values (of the few) were no longer entertainable.

France doesn't come out of his book very well - could that be why France (now) is apparently a little bit eager to give a helping hand?

Just to also add that in every country across Europe, there are groups of people who choose to live outside the norm/accepted majority. Chances are that the people you saw in Lidl were *Gypsies* of some sort.

(Greek) rich or poor families, in all the many many years I have lived here, I have never seen a filthy urchin type child. From my perspective there is a beautiful dignity about the Greek people.

Also I would like to add that if anyone truly has this country's best interests at heart, please please stop going to Lidl.

Kilkis
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby Kilkis » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:21 pm

I think if you travelled around some areas of Athens you would discover unbelievable poverty, TweetTweet. Some parts are now no-go areas. I don't think Crete gives you a complete picture of what is happening elsewhere in Greece. Neither do official figures. A 25 % overall unemployment rate and 50 % among the 18 to 24 group sounds bad so imagine what it is like in some of the towns with 80 % unemployment.

Warwick

Maud
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby Maud » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:37 am

One other point.

The stretch of road and area Raw is mentioning has always had a problem with gypsies and other travellers.....even before the crisis. Every city and port has its poor areas, but this has been exacerbated in Athens due to the immigrant/refugee problem. Yes, there are also many Greek people 'suffering', but these people usually stay in their own areas and do not end up in the shacks between Corinth and Piraeus.(Enough has correctly been said about the problems above).

TweetTweet
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby TweetTweet » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:49 am

Kilkis wrote:I think if you travelled around some areas of Athens you would discover unbelievable poverty, TweetTweet. Some parts are now no-go areas. I don't think Crete gives you a complete picture of what is happening elsewhere in Greece. Neither do official figures. A 25 % overall unemployment rate and 50 % among the 18 to 24 group sounds bad so imagine what it is like in some of the towns with 80 % unemployment.

Warwick


I agree living on Crete gives some insulation (because it is not so “in your face” as various other places (such as Athens). Despite living on an island I am not insular – just because we can’t see something doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

Maud’s “one other point” is spot on.

Cundalini
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby Cundalini » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:50 pm

raw wrote:Yesterday we traveled from the Corinth to Piraeus and took the ferry over to Heraklion.
Whilst driving through Athens we were shocked to see so many homeless people, living in tents under flyovers. But worse was to come, we drove into a Lidl car park and actually saw families living in vans and trucks. Not just the odd sad case, but there were dozens of people, The children were like urchins, filthy, in rags. I wonder how this could happen. We are in Europe, we are in the breast of civilization, I feel sick to the core.
We are over to consider if Crete is our future, to consider Greece against living in France, where we have lived for 14 years. Nothing could have prepared us for the sights we saw. I find myself wondering what the hell we are doing here.
We have visited Greece and her islands for 25 years, having stayed in various locations for 5 months last year. However returning this year, which is just 7 months since we were here last the country seems to have fallen off a cliff. It was shocking last year, but my goodness, what a mess......
We are going to rent for 6 months, see what we think. I love Greece, the Greek people, but can I cope with what has happened to this beautiful place?

Is it the failed left wing utopia a.k.a the EUSSR collapsing around our ears made ten times worse by out of control immigration?
Cundalini wants his hand back!

SatCure
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Re: Oh my goodness, what a mess......Greece

Postby SatCure » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:57 pm

Most Cretans have access to a plot of land where they can at least keep chickens and grow vegetables. This is not the same situation as for most city dwellers on the mainland. Crete, as a whole, is completely self-sufficient (apart from a few commodities including oil). It's nowhere near as bad as when most Cretans ate snails because that's all there was.


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