Page 2 of 3

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:29 am
by Kilkis
BST wrote:It's also a bit vague about people who aren't old enough to claim the state pension even though they are retired and receive other pensions. So no S1 agreement etc....even though we are retired here......feeling a bit invisible!!


I'm not sure it is vague. At the moment if you are retired person you have to prove that you have a source of income and that you have healthcare insurance. Those who do not qualify for a UK State Pension need some other form of healthcare insurance. Some do that by taking out private health insurance while some use an EHIC. Technically, for permanent residents in Greece, using an EHIC is not correct because only people who are entitled to healthcare under the NHS qualify for an EHIC* and people are only entitled to NHS healthcare if they reside in the UK. Obviously there is uncertainty about what if any deal will be done and how the EU will treat ex-pats in the absence of a deal but assuming they allow us to stay that leaves a number of possibilities:

    1 If a Brexit deal is done under which both S1 form and EHIC reciprocal healthcare arrangements continue you carry on doing whatever you are doing now.
    2 If no deal is done and S1 form and EHIC ceases to be available, but the EU allows existing residents to stay providing they satisfy the EU rules, then everybody would need to take out private health insurance.
    3 Those of us who are not able to obtain private healthcare insurance would need to leave.

Pretty straightforward really.

Warwick

* Those of us who are resident here and obtain healthcare through IKA using an S1 form are entitled to an EHIC issued by DWP for use in other EU countries BUT not in Greece.

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:18 am
by Jeffstclair
Yes It's not vague at all , I don't qualify for reciprocal health care until I'm sixty five and get state pension until then I have an insurance policy that covers me for hospital stuff, I had to get it to get a residence permit , I've never used it ... either of them ...but I'm glad I've got them ...It remains to be seen it the residence permit is going to be valid after the UK leaves the EU ....

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:47 am
by Carolina
Jeffstclair wrote: ...It remains to be seen it the residence permit is going to be valid after the UK leaves the EU ....


I don't think there is any doubt that the current resident permit (certificate) will no longer be valid after UK leaves the EU. It says "Certificate for Citizen of the European Union". We will no longer be citizens of the EU.

Whether or not those who currently hold an EU resident's certificate will be given automatic rights to another type of permit, yes that remains to be seen!

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:16 pm
by Kilkis
A Guardian article today discusses a leaked draft government position paper on control of immigration after Brexit. It is only a draft so eventual official policy may be different. The article contains a link to the full document and a link to a detailed analysis of it. People will make up their own mind if the suggested controls are too weak or too strong depending on their attitude to migration. Personally I think it is ludicrous. The UK needs to attract foreign workers in some areas. Telling someone, "Please come and work in the UK BUT make sure you don't get too settled because we intend to kick you out in 3 years is a complete nonsense."

The important aspect of the document is that all EU officials interviewed today made the point that reciprocity will be the governing rule. However the UK treats EU citizens in the UK the EU will treat UK citizens in the EU in a similar fashion. That seems to rule out any possibility of the EU treating us more leniently than the UK treats EU citizens.

I agree with Carol that, while there exists a "permanent" residence certificate, which many of us have, it is a certificate for EU citizens. Once the UK exits the EU it will no longer have any validity and our status will be entirely dependent on whatever Brexit deal is done or, in the absence of a deal, whatever the EU decides to do with us. I think it will be an EU wide decision, not left up to individual member states, especially for those states inside Schengen, which Greece is.

Warwick

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:27 pm
by BST
Too depressing to contemplate! I hope I wake up one day and Brexit will just be a bad dream :(

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:33 pm
by Jeffstclair
Yeah, you and me both ,BST...I like being a European ...

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:15 pm
by moved 2 crete
The best solution would be a second referendum now the full truth is known I think it would reverse the E.U. exit but the present government is adamant that it would not allow it if it was to take place I think that would bring about the status quo, job solved for all...idea

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:30 pm
by BST
Yes I agree! I know people who voted Brexit and most say they would vote differently now they understand the truth and complexity of it all!

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:00 pm
by Kilkis
moved 2 crete wrote:... now the full truth is known ...


I think we are still a long way away from knowing the full truth.

Warwick

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:54 pm
by filippos
Kilkis wrote:.............
3 Those of us who are not able to obtain private healthcare insurance would need to leave.

Or
4. If any new rules allow, self-insurance i.e. pay bills as they arise from ones own resources.

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:31 pm
by bettyboo
People under the state retirement age and working and in the IKA system should hopefully carry on as normal, if they meet possible residency requirements ie 5 years permanent residence in Greece, or will we all get residency if we live here before the UK leaves the EU.

It would be nice if details were finally decided so we all know where we stand, how much time do they need messing with people's futures.

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:50 pm
by Mixos
bettyboo, sent you a pm a while back. Mixos.

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:23 pm
by Jeffstclair
bettyboo wrote:People under the state retirement age and working and in the IKA system should hopefully carry on as normal, if they meet possible residency requirements ie 5 years permanent residence in Greece, or will we all get residency if we live here before the UK leaves the EU.

It would be nice if details were finally decided so we all know where we stand, how much time do they need messing with people's futures.



Yes It would be nice ,but sadly they don't think we are important ...

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:19 pm
by moved 2 crete
That is the problem, they are important to the UK and the EU immigrant workers are keeping the UK stable in all public sectors, and if all the retirees came back to the UK needing NHS treatment because of Brexit the NHS would collapse under the numbers that are as of now according to the present figures, a short sharp shock is needed to wake the negotiators and the government up to these well-known facts...

Re: POST-BREXIT continuing healthcare

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:37 am
by Kilkis
bettyboo wrote:...It would be nice if details were finally decided so we all know where we stand, how much time do they need messing with people's futures.


I must repeat one of my previous comments:

Kilkis wrote:... the basic EU principle of "Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed"...


Even if Davis and Barnier announced that they had reached an agreement on reciprocal healthcare that simply continued the current arrangement you could not rely on that happening. That is part of the overall Brexit deal. If they fail to reach an overall deal, e.g. because they cannot agree on the exit bill or some member states don't like the terms, then the results of these interim negotiations would not apply either. There can be no certainty until the whole process is complete.

filippos wrote:...4. If any new rules allow, self-insurance i.e. pay bills as they arise from ones own resources.


Logically that is a possibility but I am not sure if it is really. The rules that allow us to live here talk about healthcare insurance not about being able to pay independently. The EU loves rules.

Warwick