Greek Lessons or Books

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Kilkis
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Kilkis » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:37 pm

Clearly your (sic) on the same wavelength as me Scooby.

Warwick

john4d
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:13 pm
Location: Near Vamos

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby john4d » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:46 am

Good joke Warwick, but apparently after lots of research they decided that the 'rule' didn't actually work and they have officially dropped it. Only oldies like you and me remember it.
There's no such thing as a bad taste joke

bobscott
Posts: 2066
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: Kokkino Horio

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby bobscott » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:19 am

Does that explanation also apply to the widespread misuse of subject and object pronouns? My wife and I wouldn't know. No-one has told me!
Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

SPDL
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:39 am

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby SPDL » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:14 pm

Alan, I'd recommend Duolingo's Greek course (https://www.duolingo.com/). It's online, free, assumes no prior knowledge of the alphabet, has a very helpful community and will help you start learning the grammar once you move through the lessons a bit. It takes a little while to get going, but stick with it, it's incredibly useful. I reckon that's one of the best starting points you could take.

Once you've learned the alphabet, there are a number of good courses on Memrise (https://www.memrise.com) which will help you to build your vocabulary.

Also once you've you've got a bit of grammar and vocabulary under your belt, Clozemaster (https://www.clozemaster.com) can help with comprehension and context. I'm also a big fan of reading children's books (I'm currently having a lot of fun working my way through the Mr Men series in Greek).

Alf already recommended Language Transfer, and I'd second that. Definitely worth listening to.

To give a bit of context, I've been learning Greek for about 18 months, in London. I'm nowhere near fluent, but can communicate in Greek reasonably well and have a vocab of around 10,000 words. I don't speak Greek well enough to talk politics, or get a phone connected, or anything too technical, but enough I can have basic conversations and can understand anything written that isn't too complex. Understanding spoken Greek which is spoken at Greek speed is still a real struggle for me, but it'll come with time, especially once we're living there.

I'd also agree with others who say that most Greeks make plenty of errors; I've heard that from countless native speakers and even at my relatively basic level I often come across spelling and grammar mistakes on shop signage, in shopping catalogues and so on. Almost every Cretan I've met has been very supportive of my efforts to try and learn the language though, and I think you'll get a lot of respect for trying. Good luck!

Kilkis
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Kilkis » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:14 pm

SPDL wrote:...I'm also a big fan of reading children's books (I'm currently having a lot of fun working my way through the Mr Men series in Greek)...


My late wife used to read the Κυρία Κλοκλό children's books, about an anthropomorphic cat, and that became her nickname amongst our friends in northern Greece.

Another minor tip, learn the days of the week. Your life will inevitably involve appointments and English speaking Greeks tend to mix up Tuesday and Thursday. Whatever they say to you, repeat the day back to them in Greek. It will avoid you/them turning up on the wrong day. Typical conversation with a plumber coming to replace a tap:

Plumber: "I will come at 10 o'clock on Tuesday".
Me: "Τη Τρίτη;"
Plumber: "Όχι, τη Πέμπτη" i.e. Thursday, accompanied by a look conveying "Are you stupid?".

Personally I decided to learn the numbers quite early on because some of the Greek engineers I was working with, who spoke English, kept making mistakes. When I had them off pat I then realised it was not a language problem, they were just enumerate.

Warwick

SPDL
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:39 am

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby SPDL » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:54 pm

Κυρία Κλοκλό looks at about my level - I'll check it out!

I also often get the days of the week wrong, simply because I think of the week starting on Monday, not Sunday.

Clio
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Clio » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:17 pm

I only mention it because this is a thread about language...

they were just enumerate.


Enumerate: "How do I love thee? Let me count the ways" That's Elizabeth Barrett Browning, enumerating.

Innumerate: that's me, failing to make head or tail of my electricity bill.

Kilkis
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Kilkis » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:05 pm

Well that's me put in my place, Miss.

Warwick

Guy M
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Guy M » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:28 pm

Clio has enabled you to correct your previous inability to use the correct prefix.

Kilkis
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Kilkis » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:00 pm

Why on earth would I want to do that Guy? I cocked it up. Clio pointed it out. I hold my hand up. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work? Guilty as charged milud. Like most people, I make lots of mistakes but I have never had a problem with somebody telling me. It is better to find out than continue in ignorance.

Recently I have developed a habit of typing "their" instead of "there". I have no idea why. I have always understood the difference and I still do but, when I am typing at speed, from time to time, my brain sends the wrong version to my fingers. I have always tended to type "teh" instead of "the" but that is just one hand responding faster than the other. When I was young it took me years to get my head round which of "till" and "until" had double "l" and my English essays were plastered with copious red ink to prove the point. Now I have no problem at all. I still struggle with role and roll so I tend to look it up and every time I think I will remember that next time but I don't. Why, I have no idea. I certainly know the difference between enumerate and innumerate but I used the first spelling that came into my head without thinking about it.

When I was 17 the government introduced a new exam called "Use of English". The idea was that you would have to pass this exam as well as the appropriate O and A Levels in order to get into University. My year took the exam as a trial version before it was due to be used in earnest the following year. Fortunately the whole thing was a fiasco and they abandoned it. I got Grade 9 Atrocious so it is a wonder anybody can understand anything I write at all, let alone be able to correct it.

Warwick

Guy M
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm
Location: Kalamitsi Alexandrou

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Guy M » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:57 pm

I was teasing, I entreat you. It wasn't mean to be inappropriate.

SatCure
Posts: 1890
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:57 pm
Location: Apokoronas

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby SatCure » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:38 pm

Kilkis wrote:In Greek there isn't a female equivalent for words like doctor

Try "yiatreea".

And neighbour "Yeetonas" becomes "yeetoneea". It might not be in the dictionary but that's what the locals use.

Alan, the most amusing (to me) Greek word is hiccup. It's pronounced "locks-in-gas". Try to forget that, if you can!

My wife & I had Greek lessons in the UK over 15 years ago. The first six months were spent learning the alphabet. I still can't recite the letters in the correct order but I can read (and write - with somewhat "guessometric" spelling). The locals tell me that my spoken Greek is "katharo" - "clean" - not Cretan. I can speak whole sentences with reasonable fluency but my vocab. is still very limited and I often struggle to understand, although sometimes I surprise myself by getting the gist of what they're telling me.

I'm told that the biggest hurdle for a native English speaker is to overcome embarrassment. My advice? Just blurt it out and hope for the best. It is *certain* to be wrong so don't try to perfect it in your head. Just grin and let it flow. Babies learn from their mistakes and so must we. Thankfully, I've never suffered from embarrassment so that's one hurdle that I avoided! The words simple tumble out of my mouth then I wait for the reaction. Usually it's a smile. Occasionally, it's a look of disbelief - such as the time that I congratulated a local man on the death of his granddaughter!

Martin

Clio
Posts: 1457
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Clio » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:08 pm

Guy wroteI
I was teasing,

So was I! Only because I know Warwick really knows the word perfectlywell, and that his shoulders are attractively broad.
Kilkis wrote
In Greek there isn't a female equivalent for words like doctor


SatCure wrote
Try "yiatreea".


Well, you could, but I’m afraid Ms Doc might be a trifle puzzled to addressed as “Surgeries” (ιατρεία) which is the nearest Greek to the above Greeklish sound. (Like “Wall! O Wall!” as the Bard has it…)

As Kilkis says, professions use the masculine noun with a feminine article for a woman doctor, lawyer, journalist etc. A woman doctor is Η Ιατρός. And if you’re addressing a doc of any gender, it’s “Ιατρέ”. (You see how useful is the accent, the lack of which makes Greeklish confusing and in my book to be avoided. Where would a novice know to put the stress in “yiatreea”. for example?)

As regards the neighbour, there’s a similar confusion in the above, Martin. “Γείτονας”, feminine “Γειτόνισσα" is a neighbour. (“Γείτονα” if you’re addressing Nikos-next-door). The Greek equivalent of the “local” (?) word you’ve given in Greeklish is “γειτονιά” which means “neighbourhood”, not “neighbour”…

I don’t normally go around correcting people’s Greek when they’re doing their darnedest, but a person could get a bit misled by your post.

SatCure wrote
I congratulated a local man on the death of his granddaughter!

When we first started backpacking here and renting rooms, I would ask the price and then, being pushy, ask “Will you take less”? It was some time, and some several misunderstandings later, that I discovered I was saying “will you take more?”

Kilkis
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Kilkis » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:17 pm

Clio wrote:...Well, you could, but I’m afraid Ms Doc might be a trifle puzzled to addressed as “Surgeries” (ιατρεία)...


Is that the LiC equivalent of the American Star Wars defence system? Incoming grammatical missile blasted out of the sky by a Star Wars laser?

Always dangerous to copy words where you don't fully understand the meaning. Copying my wife, for many months I described myself as, "Είμαι Αγγλίδα". One day when out walking we were asked for directions by a group of youths in a car. I gave my usual, "Συγνώμη δεν ξέρω. Είμαι Αγγλίδα" only to hear them howling with laughter as they drove away and turned round to find my wife doubled up in fits.

Warwick

Mixos
Posts: 353
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:26 am
Location: North East Crete or S.W.England

Re: Greek Lessons or Books

Postby Mixos » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:26 pm

Once, during our early days in Crete, I hoped to impress our elderly neighbour, Georgos, who appeared to be waiting for a lift, by asking him in Greek if he was on the way to the market. I remembered that the word started with "L" and ended in "i" "Kalimera Georgo, sto Lekani..?" I asked him. His stunned expression made me realise something had got lost in translation. "Oxi" he replied, waving me off. I was mortified to realise later that I had asked him if he was on the way to the toilet.


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