Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

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Kilkis
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby Kilkis » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:45 am

I am not suggesting that you shouldn't fence, Andrew, my own plot is fully fenced. I am just saying that I am not aware of a legal requirement to do so and all the plots around me that have not been developed and are used for growing oranges are completely unfenced.

Warwick

Cundalini
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby Cundalini » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:19 pm

Update .Yesterday my partner and myself ,who is Greek and grew up in Chania ,went to the village of her grandfather and father ,and found three sheep tethered with spikes amongst the olive trees. So we cut the tethers and shooed the Sheep of her land .Later from the house we heard lots of shouting and the owners of the sheep searching for their sheep for about two and half hours. The owner of the sheep walked past the house glaring and muttering at least twice but said nothing to us .There is no legal requirement for the land to be fenced off or have a secure perimeter.
Last edited by Cundalini on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby Cundalini » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:25 pm

TweetTweet wrote:
Cundalini wrote:My partner owns some Olive trees and we keep finding goats poo amongst them and damage to the bark by goats teeth on some trees .Very badly on at least one tree.The first time we noticed we think the goat owners saw us arriving and recognised her as the land owner and went down the hill quickly to move the goats and tether them onto the side of a nearby track , before we could get from the house to the land.Other times we arrived quickly and drove ,without going to the house first, straight to the olive grove but found no goats but lots and goats poo and some illegally grazing sheep tethered amongst her olive trees.My partner phoned a number in Government to do with olive production but they never got back to her after they said they would.I said she should have kept ringing .If we find illegally tethered goats can we cut the tethers and remove them? We are worried about confrontation with the Goat owners.Thanks for any advice in advance.

Think yourslef fortunate to have free goat poo. If you/partner owns an olive grove, then it is up to you to secure your perimters. A few years ago I was visited by an enormous beautiful black horse (about 18.2 hands) and his small band of female cow friends with about 3 lovely young heifers. Due to my dogs going a bit crazy when they saw these wonderful (unusual) creatures a fair bit of damage got done to my watering system in that part of my field - BUT at that time I had an *open* space and those lovely creatures found the opening. It didn't cross my mind to tackle to owner of horse and cattle - I just fixed my perimeter fencing.

Not much point in having free goats poo if the trees are being damaged or killed by the Goats stripping the bark off with their teeth! And with the main product, Olives , being consumed by the goats ,along with the leaves the advantages of having free goats poo are nullified!!!! There is also no legal requirement for the land to be fenced off or have a secure perimeter.
Last edited by Cundalini on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SatCure
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby SatCure » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:11 pm

YoMo2 wrote:but round here if you don't fence a garden or veg plot the goats will have the lot.
Andrew


Same here. I had a chat with the local goat owner and he was very apologetic about the fact that his goats had leapt the wall into my absent neighbour's garden.

"But it's impossible for me to keep them all out. It's the garden owner's responsibility to install a fence high enough to keep them out."

Martin

Cundalini
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby Cundalini » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:26 pm

YoMo2 wrote:Is the land not fenced?

Andrew

No ,the Goats and sheep are being taken there by the Shepherd or their owner and spiked down on a long tether and allowed to graze illegally without permission from the landowner!
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Carolina
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby Carolina » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:36 pm

Cundalini wrote: .There is no legal requirement for the land to be fenced off or have a secure perimeter.


Maybe no legal requirement, but the easiest solution to your problem! Especially if it is somewhere you don't live as the same thing will happen again and again each time you leave I would imagine.

YoMo2
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby YoMo2 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:17 am

Hate to say this, but you will almost certainly need a building permit to fence in...... It may depend exactly how it's done. But as Carolina says, it will solve the problem.

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

Cundalini
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby Cundalini » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:47 pm

Carolina wrote:
Cundalini wrote: .There is no legal requirement for the land to be fenced off or have a secure perimeter.


Maybe no legal requirement, but the easiest solution to your problem! Especially if it is somewhere you don't live as the same thing will happen again and again each time you leave I would imagine.

I think it is very unlikely people with no respect for other people's land and trees , grazing their goats and sheep illegally there, will have any respect for fences or perimeters.So a fence would just get pulled down and be a waste of time.
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Cundalini
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby Cundalini » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:49 pm

YoMo2 wrote:Hate to say this, but you will almost certainly need a building permit to fence in...... It may depend exactly how it's done. But as Carolina says, it will solve the problem.

Andrew

Will it ? How will a fence stop people grazing their goats illegally on other people's land?
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BST
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby BST » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:17 pm

Been for several walks in the foothills recently with areas well outside the villages fenced off. I doubt if they had building permits. They were areas clearly owned and grazed by someone's sheep or goats.

Jeffstclair
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby Jeffstclair » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:02 am

Cundalini wrote:
YoMo2 wrote:Hate to say this, but you will almost certainly need a building permit to fence in...... It may depend exactly how it's done. But as Carolina says, it will solve the problem.

Andrew

Will it ? How will a fence stop people grazing their goats illegally on other people's land?


Maybe it will ... But I think I would try talking to the folk who own the goats and sheep. Try not to make it confrontational, take cake and complement them on how healthy looking the goats are ....if you make them your friends and they will keep an eye on the property while you are away ... I did this when I was still living in the UK and coming here to work on this house that had been empty for 25 years ...one time I arrived very late . Next morning the unfenced back garden was full of sheep ...The family that owned the sheep were related to the woman I bought my house from , their sheep had been grazed on this bit off land now and again for many years . The Man who owned the sheep became a firm friend, I learnt so much about life here from him and his wife. We worked together on stuff, he lent me his truck to buy timber when I only had a hire car , It was like they adopted us . jeff...

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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby filippos » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:55 am

Jeffstclair wrote:Try not to make it confrontational, ...........
It's also quite a good idea to remember that most Cretans have big, supportive families and a network of friends, some of whom are quick tempered, hot-headed and own guns. Vendettas can last for generations.

TweetTweet
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby TweetTweet » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:39 pm

πλεγμα (galivinised or other metal grid fencing does not need any permission. It's likely only structures that require foundations would require permission. Metal grid fencing is pretty good value, easy to install and very effective. You can have many options for entry/exit points. I use this system to keep my own 4 goats in their field.

I get the sense that all sorts of assumptions have been made with regard to the apparently couldn't care less attitudes from the local shepherds/goat herders. Maybe there is an agreement with the various *land-owners* wherein the work and added-value the goats provide is factorered in to the overal win/lose scenario. Typically a goat tether wouldn't been very long - they get tangled up - before you set the creatures free, do you recall how long their respective tethers were?

I second jeffstclair's attitude.

TweetTweet
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby TweetTweet » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:41 pm

Cundalini wrote:Update .Yesterday my partner and myself ,who is Greek and grew up in Chania ,went to the village of her grandfather and father ,and found three sheep tethered with spikes amongst the olive trees. So we cut the tethers and shooed the Sheep of her land .Later from the house we heard lots of shouting and the owners of the sheep searching for their sheep for about two and half hours. The owner of the sheep walked past the house glaring and muttering at least twice but said nothing to us .There is no legal requirement for the land to be fenced off or have a secure perimeter.

For me, your behaviour was irresponsible at the very least. Heed Fillipos's information.

Cundalini
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Re: Illegal grazing of Goats in olive trees.Advice please.

Postby Cundalini » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:54 am

TweetTweet wrote:
Cundalini wrote:Update .Yesterday my partner and myself ,who is Greek and grew up in Chania ,went to the village of her grandfather and father ,and found three sheep tethered with spikes amongst the olive trees. So we cut the tethers and shooed the Sheep of her land .Later from the house we heard lots of shouting and the owners of the sheep searching for their sheep for about two and half hours. The owner of the sheep walked past the house glaring and muttering at least twice but said nothing to us .There is no legal requirement for the land to be fenced off or have a secure perimeter.

For me, your behaviour was irresponsible at the very least. Heed Fillipos's information.

Well there is no agreement between the land owner here ,my partner , and the owners of the surrounding olive trees for any goats or sheep to be lead onto the land illegally and tied down illegally so they can eat the leaves or even worse the bark of the olive trees[ as they have with several trees already ] ,killing the trees or seriously damaging them and the olive crop to be eaten .
Last edited by Cundalini on Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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