That's all right then

For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
YoMo2
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That's all right then

Postby YoMo2 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:39 am

I see Mother Theresa is today telling us that our rights as British citizens living in Greece after Brexit,"will be protected". Clear as mud then.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42277040

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

Kilkis
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Re: That's all right then

Postby Kilkis » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:10 pm

If you have the stamina you can read the full text of the agreement as a pdf file. Some key clauses:

    20. The conditions for acquiring the right of residence under the Withdrawal Agreement are those set out in Articles 6 and 7 of Directive 2004/38/EC, including the right to change status; i.e. the same conditions as now.
    23. In order to obtain status under the Withdrawal Agreement by application, those already holding a permanent residence document issued under Union law3 at the specified date will have that document converted into the new document free of charge, subject only to verification of identity, a criminality and security check and confirmation of ongoing residence; i.e. it shouldn't be complicated if you already have a certificate.
    25. Persons who acquired the permanent residence rights in the host State under the Withdrawal Agreement can be absent from its territory for a period not exceeding five consecutive years without losing their residence right under the Withdrawal Agreement; i.e. you can come adn go pretty much as you want without losing residency rights.
    29. Rules for healthcare, including the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) scheme, will follow Regulation (EC) No 883/2004. Persons whose competent state is the UK and are in the EU27 on the specified date (and vice versa) – whether on a temporary stay or resident – continue to be eligible for healthcare reimbursement, including under the EHIC scheme, as long as that stay, residence or treatment continues; i.e. healthcare should continue as before.

It all looks pretty good but I would add a couple of caveats:

    1 There is still the overriding rule that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. What is being agreed now is the basis for part of the final agreement. It isn't an actual agreement. I don't think this is a major issue. At the end of the day people will still exist in countries that are not their countries of origin so, even if there is no final deal, they still need to decide what to do about those people. Since the EU and the UK seem to want the same thing, apart from the ECJ issue, I can't see what would be gained by either side by not agreeing at least the citizens rights bit.
    2 Paragraph 38 is a bit if a fudge on how the ECJ will be involved in disputes for a period of 8 years. I'm not sure that is going to go down well with the honourable member for the eighteenth century and his cohorts.

Warwick

bobscott
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Re: That's all right then

Postby bobscott » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:52 pm

I too picked out paragraphs 23 and 29 as being the most important. We just have to wait and see what happens in practice now! Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

YoMo2
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Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: That's all right then

Postby YoMo2 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:23 pm

I had to smile at this line from page 3....

"Application forms will be short, simple, user friendly"

And no mention of pensions. Well, there wouldn't be since that doesn't involve the EU. No doubt we'll get screwed there though.

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

chrissyg
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Re: That's all right then

Postby chrissyg » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:03 pm

So basically i have a viila here but live in uk, and one day would like to retire here, maybe. Am i right in thinking that if i dont do this in the next 2 years i will never be able to?

Tim
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Re: That's all right then

Postby Tim » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:50 pm

The inference from the BBC Lunchtime News was that anybody settling in the EU27 before 29/3/19 would be fine for both residency and reciprocal healthcare - but after that date, new arrangements may well apply. No mention of what those might be and I don't suppose it's been discussed yet.

Tim

Kilkis
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Re: That's all right then

Postby Kilkis » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:01 pm

Pensions are effectively referred to in paragraph 28, Andrew:

    28. Social security coordination rules set out in Regulations (EC) No 883/2004 and (EC) No 987/2009 will apply. Social security coordination rules will cover Union citizens who on the specified date are or have been subject to UK legislation and UK nationals who are or have been subject to the legislation of an EU27 Member State, and EU27 and UK nationals within the scope of the Withdrawal Agreement by virtue of residence. Those rules will also apply, for the purposes of aggregation of periods of social security insurance, to Union and UK citizens having worked or resided in the UK or in an EU27 Member State in the past;

Regulations (EC) No 883/2004 and (EC) No 987/2009 deal with all aspects of social security including pensions. For example the UK pays pension increments to any pensioner residing in a country with which it has a bilateral agreement on pensions. By saying that these two regulations will continue to apply the UK is establishing an ongoing bilateral agreement on social security with the rest of the EU so anybody residing anywhere in the rest of the EU should continue to receive pension increments.

It's not possible to be definitive, Chrissyg, because the current agreement is about existing residents, but there is certainly a risk that, after the date of exit, you would no longer have a right to reside in Greece if you do not already reside here. That decision is down to the EU but it would be reasonable to assume that you would be treated like a member of any third country, i.e. one outside the EU. As Tim says, it may depend on what the final deal looks like.

Warwick

YoMo2
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Re: That's all right then

Postby YoMo2 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:26 am

Cheers, Warwick. I must have fallen asleep before getting to paragraph 28. Sounds good, on the face of it.

Andrew
"It's all in the implementation"

Jason64
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Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:31 am

“It's not possible to be definitive, Chrissyg, because the current agreement is about existing residents, but there is certainly a risk that, after the date of exit, you would no longer have a right to reside in Greece if you do not already reside here. That decision is down to the EU but it would be reasonable to assume that you would be treated like a member of any third country, i.e. one outside the EU. As Tim says, it may depend on what the final deal looks like.”

So, how do non-eu citizens reside in Greece, of course that’s if there are any in Crete/Greece, and surely, it’s still up the member state who they allow to reside in Crete/Greece after an exit.

Kilkis
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Re: That's all right then

Postby Kilkis » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:47 pm

Until and unless it applies to me I haven't got the energy to investigate what alternative methods exist for gaining the right to reside in Greece.

I know that one method is with inward investment of €250,000, e.g. buying a property of that value or above, but that seems limited for 5 years with no clear picture of what happens then.

There is some other information here, if you are self supporting and here if you intend to work. It looks like for the independent means route you at least need an income of €2,000 per month or €24,000 in a bank account and medical insurance. It is also a complicated process. You apply for a Visa before coming to Greece. When you get here you apply for a residence permit. You then have to renew it after one year. I have no idea what restrictions apply that might stop you being granted it.

There does not seem to be any method other than EU membership, plus countries like Norway, Iceland etc that have rights through EFTA or similar, that gives you an indefinite right to reside but I could be wrong.

Warwick

Jason64
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:11 pm

Thanks for this, interesting, and interesting to see how Brits are treated, after, and, if and when the Uk does Brexit.

moved 2 crete
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Location: chania

Re: That's all right then

Postby moved 2 crete » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:40 am

Brexit seems to be a problem regarding your health requirements if you opt for living here Jason64 unless an agreement can be reached regarding reciprocal rights or you get private insurance... :)
Dave H

Jason64
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:04 pm

I was led to believe you needed private health care to get residency anyway. So if that’s the only requirement, if and when the Uk Brexits, then there’s no change to obtaining residency and living in Crete.

Houmeri91
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Location: Perama

Re: That's all right then

Postby Houmeri91 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:19 pm

Well we are in a similar position Jason but what we did was obtain a residents permit to get a foot in the door , you need one anyway to buy a car . You just have to take the relevant stuff to the local police station we just used the EHIC card for insurance . I understand they can be sniffy at some police stations so u can buy a special health insurance policy to cover you just for that.
The only trouble we had was they wanted to make sure there was a couple thousand euro's in our greek bank account and actually trying to get the police to do in the local town . They would only give me one initially because the police man was grumpy but got one for my wife later . So technically we are both residents of Crete although we won't move out full time until next October so will be there before actual Brexit .

Jason64
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:24 pm

Thanks for that, we are deliberating wether to or not (get a residence permit) advantages and disadvantages, but, probably better to get one, just in case Uk does Brexit, better safe than sorry. Re car, actually you don’t need a residence permit to purchase a car.


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