That's all right then

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Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: That's all right then

Postby Kilkis » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:49 pm

Jason64 wrote:I was led to believe you needed private health care to get residency anyway.


Not necessarily "private" health insurance. Under article 7 of Directive 2004/38/EC if you are coming under the condition that you are self supporting then you must prove you have sufficient money to live and that you have health insurance. The health insurance does not have to be private. Many of us who are UK State Pensioners* qualify for healthcare through IKA paid for by the UK using an S1 form issued by DWP in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 883/2004. As Houmeri91 points out, some people use an EHIC card issued by NHS also in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 883/2004. In order to do this you must remain resident in the UK at least as far as NHS is concerned, i.e. you do not tell NHS that you have relocated abroad and you provide them with a UK address. If neither of these apply then private health insurance is the only solution.

The big worry for many of us was that Regulation (EC) No 883/2004 might not be applicable to UK citizens after Brexit and we would lose both the S1 and EHIC coverage. Many of us are too old to get private health insurance from scratch and so would lose our health cover completely. That would be a concern in itself but would also mean we might lose the right to reside even if the EU allowed us to stay provided we met the conditions. The agreement reached on Friday lessens that concern.

It is also worth noting that the police will normally ask for proof of where you live. That could be the Notary Contract if you own your own house or a legal rental contract if you rent. This is not specified in Directive 2004/38/EC but is a common demand.

Warwick

* Citizens of other EU member states should also qualify for IKA coverage under an S1 form if they are in receipt of whatever is defined as a state pension scheme in their country.

Jason64
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:57 pm

Thanks Warwick, we are not at ‘official’ retirement age yet, and after my investigations obtaining private health cover doesn’t pose a problem, so all is good, I think, on that level.

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: That's all right then

Postby Kilkis » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:22 pm

I think most people that I know who came here under state retirement age took out private health insurance. Some have continued it even when they qualified for an S1 form so they have both IKA and private insurance. They would use IKA for routine things like prescriptions and the insurance for anything major like an operation. I think, but don't know for sure, that the private premiums might be less when you also have IKA because having IKA can, in some circumstances, reduce the cost of private treatment. A few rely on EHIC.

I came to Greece to work and so I, and my late wife, had IKA healthcover through the IKA contributions that I paid up until I retired. It then continued through an S1 form from the UK. With hindsight taking out private insurance when I first came might have been worthwhile but since mostly I didn't get paid it wasn't really an option. At 71 with some pre-existing conditions I doubt if I could get it now. I guess it might be possible to get some sort of cover that would satisfy the residency requirements but wouldn't really pay out much and rely on paying directly for my own treatment. I haven't investigated that since there still seems to be a fair possibility that everything will continue as before.

Warwick

Jason64
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Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:33 pm

Personally I’d rather not have it, as I don’t do doctors, not seen one for at least 10yrs. But, requirements are requirements. Just the Brexit predicament, will the Uk Brexit or not, but, I/we must make decisions before to potentially avoid problems.
I still don’t think the Uk will brexit.

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: That's all right then

Postby Kilkis » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:51 pm

Jason64 wrote:Personally I’d rather not have it, as I don’t do doctors, not seen one for at least 10yrs...


I tend to sympathise with that view. I used to teach preliminary year medical and dental students and realised how thick some of them were. In the end, however, our bodies tend to fail and then we need them. While routine medical treatment is very cheap here, e.g. €30 to €50, and most people could afford to fund it from income, some treatment can be extremely expensive so you need a fair wedge of cash stashed away if you intend paying for everything yourself. My late wife had one operation that cost €35,000 and on another occasion was receiving drugs that cost €4,000 per month.

Warwick

Jason64
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:01 pm

Appreciate your comments, I suppose we never know, or accept what could be round the corner, at least with medical issues I don’t. I suppose I live in a dream world when it comes to this, and hope I’ll just suddenly die in my sleep, thereby not needing medical assistance in any shape or form.

YoMo2
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am
Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: That's all right then

Postby YoMo2 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:17 am

Jason64 wrote:Appreciate your comments, I suppose we never know, or accept what could be round the corner, at least with medical issues I don’t. I suppose I live in a dream world when it comes to this, and hope I’ll just suddenly die in my sleep, thereby not needing medical assistance in any shape or form.


Good luck with that. Statistically unlikely I think. Not that I wish you ill.

Andrew

Jason64
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Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:03 am

Most unlikely absolutely, but we live in hope.

Tim
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Location: Near Sitia
Contact:

Re: That's all right then

Postby Tim » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:24 pm

Another thing to bear in mind regarding Private Health Insurance is the excess. In the same way as you have excesses on motor insurance it's not uncommon, in order to make the premiums affordable, to have up to a £5000 excess on your first claim on the PHI policy (and excesses on Out of Pocket Expenses). It's entirely possible that you could use the Greek health services multiple times without it ever being economical to claim on your policy.

Tim

Yin&Yang
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Megala Horafia/Aptera

Re: That's all right then

Postby Yin&Yang » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:38 pm

Tim makes a good point. My partner had private health care a year ago, with an excess of €1800. He had two operations that year - one cost €2000 so we didn't claim. The second cost €4000 and we claimed minus the excess. The policy cost iro €2500, so last year was expensive. This year my partner turned 75 and can no longer get medical insurance cover. Thank goodness for IKA, long may it be available!
Someday is now : )

Houmeri91
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:24 pm
Location: Perama

Re: That's all right then

Postby Houmeri91 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:08 am

ahhh yes Jason I looked at the purchase of car again you are right . Greek paperwork !! Yes you can do if you sign a piece of paperwork saying you are not there for more 91 days anyway when we are there we may well purchase a car . But gave us an excuse why the grumpy policeman needed to give us a permit . Anyway we decided on the permit anyway because it doesn't change your residency anyway at this time .

Kilkis
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Re: That's all right then

Postby Kilkis » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:13 am

I've not done it but I think the form that you would need is an ΥΠΕΥΘΥΝΗ ΔΗΛΩΣΗ, linked here as a Word document so you can fill it in on your PC. It is a general purpose form for making legal declarations. The sentence under the table of information states:

    Under my own responsibility and knowing the penalties (3) provided by the provisions of paragraph 6 of Article 22 of Law 1599/1986, I declare that:

You then fill in whatever you are declaring. I think it has to be in Greek but I tend to complete the table in both Greek and English since things like names rarely transliterate exactly. The minimum penalty for making a false declaration is 3 months in prison but can be up to 10 years if the false declaration is intended to gain some benefit by doing harm to someone else, e.g. defrauding someone. Given that, I would tend to only use this method if I genuinely lived here for less than 91 days in a year, e.g. holiday home. Since you are legally obliged to obtain a residence certificate if you stay in Greece for more than 91 days I would tend to do it the legal way.

If someone has just arrived and is intending to stay beyond 91 days but wants to get a car quickly, at least I would try to get a Residence Certificate first and see if the police refuse to issue one. If they did refuse I would then complete the form with words like; "I intend to reside in Greece permanently and therefore need to purchase a car now but, according to the police officer responsible for issuing permits, I do not qualify for a Residence Certificate until I have been here 91 days". At least that is a truthful declaration.

Warwick

Jason64
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:27 am

Thanks again Warwick, you are, or at least appear to be very well versed in much of Greek laws/ways, a polymath perhaps?
What would happen if one went down this route, then after, say, 7/8 months one decided to move to Crete permanently?

Kilkis
Posts: 9329
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: That's all right then

Postby Kilkis » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:23 pm

Well, as with most things legal, it depends whether what you declare was truthful at the time you declared it. For example:

    1 You buy a holiday home here and spend less than 91 days per year in it. You want a car so you use the legal declaration stating that you spend less than 91 days per year in Greece. That is a truthful statement. If you subsequently decide to relocate here permanently it doesn't matter because the statement was true when you made it. I know a number of people who have done this.
    2 You have lived here for more than 91 days but, for some reason, you don't want to get a residence certificate. Instead you sign a declaration that you live here for less than 91 days. Clearly that statement is untrue and so breaks the law. I would guess the chances of being caught and being prosecuted are pretty close to zero. Does anybody really care?

I lived in Greece without a residence certificate for 8 years. I wasn't trying to avoid having one, I simply didn't realise you were supposed to have one. My first car was bought without one but I have no idea what process was used. The transfer of ownership was handled by a lawyer working for the company I bought the car from. It wasn't a car dealer. It was a Greek subsidiary of an American company and the car was an ex-company car used by an American engineer on secondment to Greece for 3 years. I only got a residence certificate when I wanted to change my UK driving licence to a Greek version and for that it was compulsory. Now I have a permanent one but the only time I have had to produce it was to renew my driving licence and to transfer ownership when I bought a different car.

Warwick

PS I know virtually nothing about Greek law but I try to keep myself informed on anything that might impact on my life. I wouldn't describe myself as a polymath. My knowledge is pretty limited but I do have an insatiable curiosity. If somebody asks a question I can't resist trying to find the answer.

Jason64
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: That's all right then

Postby Jason64 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:53 pm

:D


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