Residence permits.

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peebee
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Location: Kalyves

Residence permits.

Postby peebee » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:39 am

Had to go to the Police station in Vrysses yesterday for a licence renewal, and as a precaution took everything in the way of paperwork that I have.
It was pointed out to me, that my residence permit has expired, although I was originally told by Vamos Police that it doesn't.
I checked with the KEP office this morning, and was told that it doesn't expire, on the second line up it states `μονιμη επφατασταση' which translates as `permanent replacement'.
The current requirement for obtaining one, for anyone applying in the near future is:-
Tax number
Proof of medical insurance or IKA book
Passport
4 photos
Electricity bill
Proof of residence i.e. rental agreement, or I presume house ownership.
The Policeman however, got the res permit expiry issue wrong, so it's quite possible that the above might not be 100% correct either. :D

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Kilkis » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:42 pm

There does seem to be a bit of a semantic gap. What is the difference between a certificate that doesn't expire and a permanent certificate?

The original Residence Permit (Αδεια Διαμονης) did indeed expire after 5 years and had to be renewed. It had an expiry date on the permit. There was also a permanent version (Αδεια Παραμονης) that you could apply for when you had been resident for 5 years. Both were replaced some years ago by the new Residence Certificates. Again there are two versions: an initial certificate (Βεβαίωση Eγγραφής Πολιτών Ευρωπαϊκης Ενοσης) that you should get if you stay more than 3 months in Greece and a permanent version (Eγγραφο Πιστοποίησης Μόνιμης Διαμονής Πολίτη Κρατους Μελους Της Ευρωπαϊκης Ενοσης) that you can apply for once you have been resident for 5 years. The new initial version does not have an expiry date but it is pretty common for the police to tell foreign nationals that they have to renew it after 5 years. Whether that is the law or just them not adapting to the change I have no idea. I can't remember when the change took place but I suspect it was when Directive 2004/38/EC came into force. They were certainly issuing the old permits in early 2005 and the new certificates in late 2010.

Personally I would recommend that anybody who qualifies for the permanent certificate should get one now. If the agreement reached last week makes it into the final agreement, anybody who holds a permanent certificate can exchange it for whatever new document is required free of charge, subject to a criminal record check. As far as I can see anybody who does not hold the permanent certificate will have to go through some sort of application procedure that may carry a charge.

Warwick

peebee
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Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:07 am
Location: Kalyves

Re: Residence permits.

Postby peebee » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:27 pm

We moved here in 2010, and applied for our RPs early 2011.
We were told we would have to wait, because they were waiting for the new ones (buff coloured).
Took a couple of months, but there they were, with μονιμη επφατασταση written in the space provided.

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Kilkis » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:41 pm

I think they must have just been waiting for new stock. The new version certificates were certainly being issued before 2010. My new permanent one (blue) is dated November 2010 and I had a new version initial one (buff) before that. Initially they wouldn't issue a permanent one, because my original permit had expired, so I got a buff one. He said I could apply for a permanent one 5 years after the buff one was issued but a few weeks later he relented and issued the permanent one. I think buff ones were being issued as early as 2008 but I am not sure. I think my neighbour moved in late 2007/early 2008 and bought a car pretty soon after arriving. He got a residence certificate in order to buy the car and that was one of the new type.

Warwick

Tim
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Re: Residence permits.

Postby Tim » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:57 pm

Correct, Warwick. My permit (buff coloured and temporary) was issued in September 2008.

Tim

Phild
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:01 pm
Location: Way out West

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Phild » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:42 am

Our buff permits were issued in October 2007.

I'm quite annoyed that we have to go through the rigmarole to get a permanent one, since this one has no expiry date (but, as you imply, has expired), but it *is* the 'Βεβαίωση ' rather than the 'Eγγραφο', so it looks like we will have to bite the bullet and do it.
----
Phil
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Yin&Yang
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 6:03 pm
Location: Megala Horafia/Aptera

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Yin&Yang » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:25 pm

By coincidence, our permits will be five years old on Monday, so thank you for the information; we shall be upgrading them.
Someday is now : )

bettyboo
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:48 am

Re: Residence permits.

Postby bettyboo » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:37 pm

I'd thought about getting a permanent one a while ago but thought there's no point as after Brexit it won't be valid as it's for EU nationals ...but now if it will make the process easier post Brexit then I'll get one, I'm in process of changing my driving licence so a bit more hassle won't be too bad :) ... I hope

Jason64
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Jason64 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:21 pm

All very interesting. Right to remain in an eu country, FoM I thought all came under EU law, and, as EU law is EU law, and the Uk has adopted EU law, even after Brexit (should Brexit actually happen) then right to remain and FoM surely stays, until the Uk change that part of the law into British law, and that could take years, depending which laws they decide to change first, and there are over 40k to change!!

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Kilkis » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:00 pm

Since one of the primary aims of Brexit is to "take back control of our borders" I think it is highly probable that Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1003, "THE IMMIGRATION (EUROPEAN ECONOMIC AREA) REGULATIONS 2006", which implements DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC in UK law, will be one of the first pieces of legislation that will be changed after the withdrawal Bill and the Bill that implements whatever the final agreement is.

Viewed from the Greek end, DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC applies to EU citizens. Once the UK has withdrawn from the EU it will no longer be applicable to UK citizens living in the EU because they will no longer be EU citizens. What the UK does or doesn't do with its legislation is irrelevant. The UK could leave Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1003 in place for the next 50 years but UK citizens will lose their right to remain in the EU the second the UK withdraws from the EU unless the right to remain is enshrined in a new agreement.

Warwick

filippos
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Re: Residence permits.

Postby filippos » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:33 pm

Phild wrote:.....I'm quite annoyed that we have to go through the rigmarole to get a permanent one,,......
No point in getting annoyed, Phil. If it has to be done, it has to be done however annoyed you get and you're the only one who'll be affected by that anger. Potentially, it'll nudge you a bit nearer to a heart attack.
Also, let your irritation show during the process and there's a chance that the cooperative official you're dealing with becomes less so and loses most of his/her ability to understand English or your Greek then demands another document you don't have. When you return another document you don't have will be demanded. Bureaucrats everywhere can usually find the a way to have the last word.

Jason64
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Jason64 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:56 pm

Kilkis wrote:Since one of the primary aims of Brexit is to "take back control of our borders" I think it is highly probable that Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1003, "THE IMMIGRATION (EUROPEAN ECONOMIC AREA) REGULATIONS 2006", which implements DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC in UK law, will be one of the first pieces of legislation that will be changed after the withdrawal Bill and the Bill that implements whatever the final agreement is.

Viewed from the Greek end, DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC applies to EU citizens. Once the UK has withdrawn from the EU it will no longer be applicable to UK citizens living in the EU because they will no longer be EU citizens. What the UK does or doesn't do with its legislation is irrelevant. The UK could leave Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1003 in place for the next 50 years but UK citizens will lose their right to remain in the EU the second the UK withdraws from the EU unless the right to remain is enshrined in a new agreement.

Warwick



All very complicated, and no one really seems to know ‘what if what what where’ will happen, or not happen, even the professionals from all walks. Interesting times!

Kilkis
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Kilkis » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:15 pm

It's not really complicated, Jason. When the UK leaves the EU, UK citizens will no longer be EU citizens. Any EU legislation that says, "EU citizens are entitled to..." will no longer apply to UK citizens unless the leave agreement explicitly says that it does. That seems pretty simple and completely clear.

It is true we don't know what the final leave agreement will say but we do now know what it is currently intended to say, provided a final agreement is reached. That is more information than existed a week ago.

Warwick

Jason64
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Jason64 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:19 pm

Not so sure. Here’s a piece from an authority on politics.

“Well it’s worse than that. All EU laws have been translated into U.K. laws. I believe about 40,000 of them. The government has done it so that most of these laws can be changed by Statutory Instruments which means that Ministers and therefore in reality their civil servants can change the law without consulting parliament. So even if you accept that the European Parliament and the Commission have been remote from the people, the new arrangements are worse and essentially undemocratic.

That’s what you get when you accept the result of the referendum.”

Seems complicated really, 40k always a hell of a lot of jaws to change, albeit some are very simple to change.

Jason64
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:09 am

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Jason64 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:20 pm

Jaws?? LAWS oops , my fingers seem too big for phone keyboards these days haha


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