Residence permits.

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filippos
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Re: Residence permits.

Postby filippos » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:15 pm

Last time I renewed mine at Vamos Police station it was 2-3 years out of date and that caused no problem.

Kilkis
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Re: Residence permits.

Postby Kilkis » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:38 am

marmite wrote:I mistook my permit for a permanent one and thought it had no expirey date. Having read all the posts I now see I need to update my temporary one to a permanent one. However, my temporary one was issued in 2009 - so is now way out of date (if it only lasted for 5 years). Do you think that will be an issue when I go to get a permanent one?


No, I don't think it will be an issue because I don't think it "only lasted for 5 years". If your certificate was issued in 2009 then I suspect it is one of the new type. If so, I believe that it does not expire. I think confusion is being caused by the use of words in the context of DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC and the same words in common usage, especially the word "permanent". Anything that continues on indefinitely could be described as "permanent" in common usage but under the terms of the Directive "permanent" has a very specific meaning. The two types of certificate represent different status under that Directive. Also that Directive replaced a number of previous versions which had somewhat different provisions. For example the earlier version had a permit which expired after 5 years and had to be renewed. I suspect, but don't know for certain, that the expired permit Filippos referred to was the old style permit and he probably renewed it for the first type of new style certificate described below. The new Directive came into force in Greek law sometime around 2006 or a little later.

When you first arrive in Greece and intend to stay for more than 3 months you get a certificate issued under Article 7 of the Directive. That certificate does not expire BUT it only continues to be valid as long as you satisfy the conditions in Article 7. That certificate is a beige colour and has the words ΒΕΒΑΙΩΣΗ ΕΓΓΡΑΦΗΣ ΠΟΛΙΤΗ ΚΡΑΤΟΥΣ ΜΕΛΟΥΣ ΤΗΣ ΕΥΡΩΠΑΙΚΗΣ ΕΝΩΣΗΣ on the front or something very similar. You can continue living in Greece on the basis of this certificate if you wish.

Once you have lived legally in Greece for 5 years you can apply for a "permanent certificate". That is issued under Article 16 of the Directive and, as far as I can tell, continues to be valid even if you no longer satisfy the conditions in Article 7. That certificate is blue and has the words EΓΓΡΑΦΟ ΠΙΣΤΟΠΟΙΗΣΗΣ ΜΟΝΙΜΗΣ ΔΙΑΜΟΝΗΣ ΠΟΛΙΤΗ ΚΡΑΤΟΥΣ ΜΕΛΟΥΣ ΤΗΣ ΕΥΡΩΠΑΪΚΗΣ ΕΝΟΣΗΣ on the front or something very similar. There is nothing to force you to get this type of certificate.

The potential advantage of swapping the first type of certificate for the second type, if you are eligible, is that the agreement between the UK and the EU on citizens rights makes a provision for exchanging the second type for whatever document is required after Brexit free of charge and with minimum bureaucracy.

Warwick

Tim
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Re: Residence permits.

Postby Tim » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:41 am

You are confused. Your temporary permit has no expiry date - it's open ended. You need to have held it for five years before you can upgrade to a permanent permit, so you shouldn't have any problems.

Tim

filippos
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Re: Residence permits.

Postby filippos » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:57 pm

Warwick, you might be able to give guidance if folks can see a card to compare with their own.

In your opinion, is the Residence Permit shown below one that needs renewal or doesn't need renewal?
(Assuming the redacted parts are filled in.) ;-)

Image

marmite
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:16 pm

Re: Residence permits.

Postby marmite » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:44 pm

Thank you Warwick. As always you are are a reliable source of info in a world of disinformation. I often post queries to this site knowing that you will reply and that the info you give is impeccable.

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Kilkis » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:07 am

Filippos, it is a certificate that does NOT need renewing BUT it is NOT a certificate of permanent residence. The two are different. Specifically the permanent residence certificate is blue and the words in capital letter at the bottom of the front page are different. I will try to post an image.

Warwick

Jean
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Re: Residence permits.

Postby Jean » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:36 am

The potential advantage of swapping the first type of certificate for the second type, if you are eligible, is that the agreement between the UK and the EU on citizens rights makes a provision for exchanging the second type for whatever document is required after Brexit free of charge and with minimum bureaucracy.

Is there any advantage to getting the second (permanent) type if you are not British but from another EU country? So far the only time that I ever had to use my residence permit was for buying cars. Otherwise it's not ever needed, not even for opening a business.

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Kilkis » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:43 am

I can't think of a good reason, Jean. As you say nobody really needs one except for a couple of activities like buying a car and getting/renewing a Greek driving licence.

Warwick

YoMo2
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Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Residence permits.

Postby YoMo2 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:01 am

Anyone any idea what rights of residence will apply after Brexit, or now even, to the British wife of a Greek citizen?

Andrew

Kilkis
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Re: Residence permits.

Postby Kilkis » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:33 am

Nobody knows for certain until the final agreement is reached but the likely outcome is discussed extensively in this thread, strangely enough started by you Andrew only two weeks ago. Is your memory going?

Warwick

bettyboo
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Re: Residence permits.

Postby bettyboo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:18 pm

I'm in the process of getting the permanent resident certificate ( I will hopefully collect from the police station tomorrow) and exchanging my driving licence to a Greek one, getting the permit is certainly easier than the license .. next thing on list for license is the optician, so far it's been the town hall, lawyer and a doctor, after the checks that need doing are done the lady at the town hall said to come back after the celebrations, come back about the 20 th January... then it's making the relevant payments ......

For the permanent resident certificate the police wanted 2 copies of passport, 3 passport photos, copy of inside of IKA book, took my beige permit off me and I signed a form, that was Monday and told to go back tomorrow to collect the blue certificate/permit .

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: Residence permits.

Postby Kilkis » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:43 pm

That sounds about right for the permanent residence certificate. Not really a big issue.

By town hall I presume you mean KEP at the town hall? It is also possible to do it directly at the driving centre but I prefer to use KEP. When you reach 80 you have to do it at the driving centre and you need other medical checks. I also presume you needed to go to the lawyer in order to get a translation of your existing driving licence? I had to do that when I converted my English one to a Greek one.

For the benefit of others reading the post, the medical check and eye test only apply if you are 65 or over. You also need a residence certificate that was issued at least 95 days before the date of the application and to sign a legal declaration that you haven't applied to another office for a licence.

Warwick

bettyboo
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:48 am

Re: Residence permits.

Postby bettyboo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:12 pm

I went to the KEP office in Agios Nikolaos first regarding the license but was sent to the town hall, I'm nowhere near 80 but the woman processing the paperwork insisted on a paper from the doctor and optician! Yes the lawyer was for the translation of licence to Greek and to certify copies of passport and residence permit..the residence certificate is a piece of cake compared to the driving license; the info might come in handy if anyone is thinking of changing to a Greek license in the future

bettyboo
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:48 am

Re: Residence permits.

Postby bettyboo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:12 pm

Or 65 ! :D

YoMo2
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Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Residence permits.

Postby YoMo2 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Kilkis wrote:Nobody knows for certain until the final agreement is reached but the likely outcome is discussed extensively in this thread, strangely enough started by you Andrew only two weeks ago. Is your memory going?

Warwick


My memory has been going for a long time. I don't think there was anything in that thread that answers my question here was there? I was trying to find out whether the non EU wife of a Greek already has right of residence, regardless of whatever is decided after Brexit.

Andrew


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