IKA Renewal Heads Up

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filippos
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby filippos » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:58 pm

bobscott wrote:BTW - do you know what happens if you can't get to IKA to renew your book until March or April? Bob.

We visited the practice in Kalyves yesterday and the patient ahead of us couldn't be given an IKA prescription as she hadn't updated her IKA book yet. The receptionist was denied access to the system when she entered the patient's AMKA number and couldn't find any way round the problem. I don't know if the non renewal caused the denial of access or whether it was mere coincidence with some other reason for the system to block access. There was no problem accessing the system in our case; books were renewed sometime in January.

Kilkis
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby Kilkis » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:55 pm

I am pretty certain that if you do not renew the book you will not receive any IKA treatment until it is renewed. That would include prescriptions and treatment in a general hospital or reduced price treatment in a private hospital/clinic or with a private consultant. You would need to pay for everything yourself at the market rate. In most case you would still be able to purchase medication at full price unless it is on a list that can only be sold with a prescription.

Warwick

johnincrete
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby johnincrete » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:29 am

Last year I forgot to renew IKA until March when my request for a prescription was denied by the system (also at the Kalives surgery). As usual, I went to Kep in the Court Square in Chania and they got it renewed. While I was waiting, I "borrowed" the medication from the local pharmacy and paid when I eventually got the prescription. (One case where it pays to be loyal to one business)

This year, because of the many hospital appointments I had in December and January, I needed the IKA book so could not give it to KEP to renew. I went to KEP to renew it last week and they had not heard of any new regulations and I left the book with them. (life is too short to stand in the queue at the IKA office with locals pushing in to the head of the queue!!). Meanwhile I have suspended a trip to the Police Station to get the permanent residence permit - it should be interesting because the residence permit I got 10 years ago when I first moved here expired 5 years ago!!

Kilkis
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:18 am

johnincrete wrote:...Meanwhile I have suspended a trip to the Police Station to get the permanent residence permit - it should be interesting because the residence permit I got 10 years ago when I first moved here expired 5 years ago!!


When I did this about 8 years ago, albeit only a few months expired, they refused to give me a permanent one and issued a new registration certificate (buff version). They then relented and issued the permanent one. They seem to only want to accept a valid registration certificate that was issued at least 5 years previously as proof that you have been here at least 5 years. At the time I was still working for a Greek company and had been continuously for 12 years. I could prove 12 years continuous tax residency paying both Greek income tax and IKA but they didn't think that was in anyway relevant.

Warwick

BST
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby BST » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:36 pm

I thought the buff permits were for people who lived here more than 3 months so 2 long holidays or summer in Crete would be adequate. I take it the blue permits are for 12 months residency? So if the buff permit lapsed a few years ago but you've still not been here any more than a few months a year, what coloured permit would you need? Hypothetical by the way! Not bothering with a blue permit until DWP/NHS confirm that reciprocal health arrangements will continue for new state pensioners after Brexit. Might have to return to broken Britain anyway!

Kilkis
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:56 pm

I'm afraid your understanding is a bit confused, BST

Original Residence Permits, pre-about-2006, were typically blue or green and expired after 5 years. I suspect that is the permit John is talking about.

Around 2006 a new Registration Certificate, which is a buff colour, was introduced that anybody living here more than 3 months was supposed to get. It does not expire. If you live here more than 3 months and don't get one then technically you are breaking the law although in practise nobody seems to care very much.

Once you have lived here more than 5 years then you are entitled to a Permanent Residence Document which is blue. There is no compulsion to get this document but it may be beneficial to have one, if you qualify, since it may be easier to get whatever documentation is required after Brexit if you have one. This is not certain but since it doesn't cost anything it is probably worth getting. If you haven't lived here continuously for at least 5 years then you don't qualify for the Permanent Residency Document.

Since the original Residency Permits ceased to be issued around 2006 and expired after 5 years no such permits are valid today. In order to get a Permanent Residency Document you will be expected to have a Registration Certificate issued at least 5 years previously.

Warwick

BST
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby BST » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:38 pm

Thanks for clarification. I have a buff one issued in 2011 I think. I'll wait and see what Brexit decide to do before I go for a blue or not. If I can get free healthcare here in the future then fine but at the moment like a lot of other 55-65 ish people who have retired but can't have a state pension yet, we are in no man's land!

Kilkis
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:15 pm

A buff one issued in 2011 would entitle you to a blue Permanent Residence Document now. I can't see what advantage there is in waiting? If the interim agreement issued in December becomes part of the final agreement then a Permanent Residence Document automatically entitles you to whatever new document is needed after Brexit. The buff Registration Certificate may require a more complicated application procedure in order to stay. Given that both the UK and the EU seem to be thinking that way it is hard to imagine a final agreement in which a Permanent Residence Document made you worse off than the Registration Certificate. Obviously the final decision might be to kick everybody out and then it won't matter which document you have.

Warwick

Clio
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby Clio » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:17 pm

I am pretty certain that if you do not renew the book you will not receive any IKA treatment until it is renewed.

Not necessarily so. My two penn'orth for what it's worth.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I am engaged in a long-running battle with the social security system, one front of which is the refusal of IKA to renew my vivliario. It expired at the beginning of last year. Efka, the umbrella organisation with which I am now insured* can't intervene because it's IKA who actually issue the book. But they assured me that the lack of book would not prevent me from using the Greek health system. "Just give your AMKA number. That's all you need".

Since getting that assurance I have successfully used "just the AMKA number" - once to to get Xrays and medication from the local health centre, once very recently for a consultation with an orthopedic specialist at the Panepistimiako.

He is proposing to give me a new knee towards the end of this year, and I am perhaps understandably reluctant to test out the "just use AMKA" plan for an op costing thousands of quid, in case I end up having to pay.

So I am pursuing the vivliario, at some expense in money and time, because it's the one and only benefit I expect or need from my membership of EFKA and because the cop shop were insisting on seeing it in order to give me a new residence document for the one I've lost.

*That's all I have to say which is immediately on topic, but just in case anyone's still with me, I'll add the latest jolly development. Kostas at the astinomia said "they" might accept a paper from KEP saying that I'm insured. Kostas at KEP said he'd happily oblige, but when he input my code into the EFKA site, it says I am "not insured". Funny, that. I paid EFKA 2000 euros for insurance last year.

**I say "document" because although it was issued in 2006 and I've never used it for anything, ever, which is how it came to get lost, I know that it was blue. So was it a permit, a certificate or a diploma (Grade 1) in Greek bureaucracy? What colour/manner of document will the replacement be? But I forgot. I can't get a replacement until I get a vivliario. There's a very big hole in my bucket.

Kilkis
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:47 pm

My comment really related to people like myself who get healthcover through an S1 form from the UK, Clio. I suspect it is different for people like you who are working and paying into the EFKA system.

Back in the day when I was working and it was still IKA I am pretty sure I didn't need to renew my book at all. As far as I can remember my boss was automatically sent a new slip which he gave to me to staple inside the book every year, if he remembered. Since slips are no longer issued for anybody and entitlement is renewed online I would expect somebody paying into the system to get renewed automatically. I think in all cases it is the AMKA number that is now entered by the doctor/pharmacy not the IKA number.

It would make sense, therefore, if you continue to receive cover without having to renew but people like me don't.

Incidentally There is absolutely nothing inside the health book now to show that it is up-to-date. Mine shows that it expired in 2014. If you showed the book to a police officer now in order to obtain a Registration Certificate he cannot tell if it is still valid just by looking at it. Whether they would go online and check I don't know. Also when I applied for my IKA pension I didn't have the last couple of years worth of slips proving that my IKA contributions had been paid. I went to an office in the IKA building and a man there was able to look it up on a computer and print out a paper listing all the payments for which I had no proof. Would such a document help you?

Warwick

Clio
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby Clio » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:16 pm

My comment really related to people like myself who get health cover through an S1 form from the UK, Clio.


Actually that was how I got my vivliario in the first place. I am doubly qualified for one, which makes it all the more galling!

Would such a document help you?


Bless you, but no. It’s not what I paid, but what they say I didn’t pay that is the issue!

Kilkis
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:41 pm

Clio wrote:...Bless you, but no. It’s not what I paid, but what they say I didn’t pay that is the issue!


It usually is. When I first started working in Greece if the owner of a company didn't actually pay the IKA contributions it was the worker's problem. If the boss stopped IKA out of your salary but didn't give it to IKA - you had no healthcover. The law was changed shortly after I stared working here so that the owner was liable and the worker received healthcover even if the owner failed to remit the IKA contributions. I was quite lucky because when I first arrived my boss had enough money to pay the IKA stamps, yes back then they were actual stamps stuck on a large sheet, so I got healthcover. By the time he had hit major cash-flow problems and wasn't paying us or IKA the law had already changed so my healthcover continued. When I finally retired in 2011 I had already renewed up to the end of February 2012 so it gave me a whole year to sort out my S1.

Warwick

BST
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby BST » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:01 pm

Kilkis wrote:
"I can't see what advantage there is in waiting?"

It depends on what might be required as proof of health cover in Crete. From the comments made on the forum, it would appear that people obtaining blue permits have been asked for S1 /IKA books as evidence, which obviously we haven't got. I used my EHIC card for the buff permit but not sure if that would still be accepted by the police even though I have used it here.

Kilkis
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby Kilkis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:07 pm

If an EHIC was accepted for the Registration Certificate there is no reason it shouldn't be accepted for the Permanent Residency Document. As discussed elsewhere, they shouldn't really ask for proof of healthcover at all for the Permanent document.

Warwick

BST
Posts: 336
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Re: IKA Renewal Heads Up

Postby BST » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:54 pm

Might give it a go then!


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