Property Register declaration

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altohb
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Sitia

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby altohb » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:40 am

YoMo2 wrote:
Roussa wrote:
GlennB wrote:
On consideration, surely the smart move is to forget about actually submitting your declaration until the deadline for Greek residents has passed. (Assuming you are non-resident for tax purposes). The office will then only be dealing with non-residents. By definition, there will be a lot fewer of them, and you have an extra three months to submit.

Just a thought.

Andrew


Makes sense in theory, but it might be as well to be sure that tax residence is the criterion used for when you should submit your papers. Our accountant informed non residents about this before us, but on the grounds that non residents would have to arrange flights etc to come and do the necessary. Tax residence wasn't mentioned at all.

YoMo2
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Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby YoMo2 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:07 pm

altohb wrote:
YoMo2 wrote:
On consideration, surely the smart move is to forget about actually submitting your declaration until the deadline for Greek residents has passed. (Assuming you are non-resident for tax purposes). The office will then only be dealing with non-residents. By definition, there will be a lot fewer of them, and you have an extra three months to submit.

Just a thought.

Andrew


Makes sense in theory, but it might be as well to be sure that tax residence is the criterion used for when you should submit your papers. Our accountant informed non residents about this before us, but on the grounds that non residents would have to arrange flights etc to come and do the necessary. Tax residence wasn't mentioned at all.


As I mentioned, in another thread I think, the guidance notes do not specify what resident and non-resident mean. So, I have no idea where one would get a definitive answer on that. My point was that if you are non tax resident, it would be asking for trouble to tick the box on the property declaration to say you are resident. Just on the basis that you might get asked awkward questions by the Greek tax people at some later stage.

Andrew

Jeffstclair
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Location: The centre of the universe

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby Jeffstclair » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:54 pm

Got ours done today , I say done ..we still have to go back with the forms from the bank to say we have paid, and then when the local property register office in Sitia floats our paperwork (they say two months) ...interesting charging system ...to enter one property ( say a house) on the register is 35euro ...if there is joint ownership its 35 euros each owner ....an additional plot of land is also 35 euros two owners 70 euros ...and so on .but you only pay for 3 entries ... so the maximum you can get charged is 105 euros each owner ..We have a rag-tag mix of a strema of olive trees here some grapes there ,a veg plot, some more trees here ..and I thought we were gonna get charged twice to register each half strema plot ...but no...105 euros each..

davidnc
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:07 pm

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby davidnc » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:27 pm

Hi,
Does anyone have any more info on the cadastral survey ? I want to apply ASAP. We don't have a certificate of transcription but hopefully this is available from the land registry office ? Our house is in the Sitia area.

BTW : It would be good to be in contact with others in the Sitia area, especially in these troubled times of Brexodus

best regards
David

Tim
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:41 pm
Location: Near Sitia
Contact:

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby Tim » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:35 pm

Hi David

Please feel free to PM me ....

Tim

altohb
Posts: 922
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Location: Sitia

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby altohb » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:16 pm

Hi David

Best advice for starters is to see your accountant pdq. He/she will advise you as to the exact paperwork required.

davidnc
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:07 pm

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby davidnc » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:24 pm

Thanks, going to see her tomorrow

cheers

DC

altohb
Posts: 922
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Location: Sitia

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby altohb » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:27 am

Sent you a pm.

YoMo2
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Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby YoMo2 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:55 am

Unless your accountant has specifically set themself up to make money out of this, it's not really anything to do with accountants. I'm not saying they won't get involved. but if you think about it, it's really more a matter for engineers and lawyers.

If you need a topo, you need an engineer. If you have a problem with your deeds or transcription certificate, a lawyer will sort it. There is nothing an accountant brings to the party other than form filling.

The documents you need are as follows:

Title deeds
Transcription certificate, from the local deeds registry, (NOT the same as the new land registry)
Document to show location of property, ideally a GPS topographic
Identity document
Document showing your tax number

Hope this helps

Andrew

Tim
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Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:41 pm
Location: Near Sitia
Contact:

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby Tim » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:39 am

For added clarity, the whole process is carried out using copies rather than originals. Therefore you will need copies of your contract/topography/transcript which will entail a trip to the print shop for the topo copy.

Tim

Jeffstclair
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Re: Property Register declaration

Postby Jeffstclair » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:41 am

Yes I agree YoMo2, we have just done our entries in the register all with joint ownership, so double forms for everything .We are still waiting for the Transcription certificates ,the Sitia office say it will take two months ,and they will phone me when they are ready to collect ...The lawyers and the engineers in the National register office in Sitia are very helpful and friendly with perfect English ...and steered us through our multiple forms we had to fill in ... the web site that you use to get the satellite photos is very slow to load and very bandwidth heavy ...however once you get the grid references to the engineer he very quickly verifies the data .....so as far as I can see there is no need to involve your accountant ...

evansmr1
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Pirgos, Kalo Horio,

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby evansmr1 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:48 am

so as far as I can see there is no need to involve your accountant ... Jeffstclair wrote


No need to involve even your Solicitor. It is so easy. I downloaded the documents from http://www.ktimatologio.gr/sites/en/Pages/Default.aspx. The documents are in pdf format. You can email them with questions. They sent me a document and forms in English. But these were not quite the same as is now required. However, they did help me understand the requirements.
Complete the Documents using Greek language apart from the Personal details, name, place of birth etc. You only need to complete the first part of Document A. The rest of the Document is fairly easy as long as you have the Property Contract and Topograph. It matters not if you make some errors, at the Codastral Office they will correct any errors. All they need is to see that you attempted to complete the forms. I made a few mistakes which were quickly corrected. I found the Staff at the Agios Nikolaos very helpful. I arrived at their Office at 12:00 and left at 13:30 with the printed invoices to make the Payment. I returned, as requested, two days later with receipts of Payment. 15 minutes after my arrival I left all completed.
Europlan wanted 300 euros to register for me. I am so glad I did not waste the money. It was so easy.
Mike
=============
Sic parvis magnaike

Kilkis
Posts: 11023
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Near Chania

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby Kilkis » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:17 am

I think that this is a link to the pdf application form to which Evansmr1 refers but I could be wrong. It's a bit buried on the web site on this page. Perhaps Evansmr1 could confirm that this is the correct form?

Warwick

YoMo2
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Location: Milatos, Lasithi

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby YoMo2 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:49 am

What worries me slightly about the whole process is the question of registering the precise boundaries of the property. In the case of a house or apartment in an urban area it should be relatively easy in that most properties butt up against each other and there will be town plans as well as satellite photos etc.

In the case of plots of land in rural areas I suspect this whole business will run for ever, although, given the age profile of forum members, this may only be of interest to our heirs.

There has been much talk of satellite photos and standing on a plot to get GPS coordinates with a smartphone. My preference is to get a modern GPS based topo, but even with that you are still open to an overlapping claim from your neighbour, who may not have visited his property for years and be working off an old topo. Or maybe it is you who has the boundaries wrong? Your modern topo may accurately show the boundaries you have been shown and fenced. Your absentee neighbour may not agree.

All manna from heaven for the engineers and lawyers and judges who will be sorting this out for decades.

Happy days.

Andrew

davidnc
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:07 pm

Re: Property Register declaration

Postby davidnc » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:20 am

Thanks everyone for the tips on the cadastral survey. I managed to do it yesterday with help from our very kind lawyer. It would have taken me a lot longer otherewise ! As Jeff pointed out there is a backlog on issuing transcription certificates ΠΙΣΤΟΠΟΙΗΤΙΚΟ ΜΕΤΑΓΡΑΦΗΣ because hardly anyone has it. It's issued by the land registry and I was also told about 2 months while they issue hundreds (or thousands ?). However, I was able to file everything else and it will be added later.
The application form from the contractor "Ktimatologio" is available online and to print from their website. Contracts and Topography are held with the Notary and I had to get the original topography from the notary and get an A0 copy in the copy shop in Sitia (they also scanned it for me as a pdf and jpg which is useful). I did a copy of the contract and other documents myself.

As Andrew explained,
"The documents you need are as follows:
Title deeds
Transcription certificate, from the local deeds registry, (NOT the same as the new land registry)
Document to show location of property, ideally a GPS topographic
Identity document
Document showing your tax number"

As well as a copy our contract, topography, my passport and most recent tax return, I had to include a copy of the Building Permission, as we had built on the land from scratch.
I paid the fee in the bank and got an immediate receipt but will wait 2 days as recommended before going back to the Ktimatologio office.

Boundary Lines :- My only concern is that the chap at Ktimatologio showed our plot of land on their system (Google Earth overlayed with boundary lines and a 12 digit number for each plot of land. Our boundary was OK on some sides but on one one side it was completely wrong - some of our land was assigned to a neighbour and some of his to us.
For the boundary line in question, we have seen the neighbour's topography and the line is the same as his. In fact we signed a copy of the topo with the previous neighbour to say we agreed on our common boundary which is a straight line.
However, what happens if two neighbours each have a different boundary on their topography ? Who will win ?

The guy at Ktimatologio said it would be corrected in Athens according to the topography. Is that the experience of other land owners or did you try and correct it on their system there and then ??? I wonder how they arrived at the boundaries on ther system ?

best regards to all,

David


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