Page 2 of 6

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:00 pm
by Tim
If anyone is missing their 'Transcription Certificate' (ΠΙΣΤΟΠΟΙΗΤΙΚΟ ΜΕΤΑΓΡΑΦΗΣ) in the Sitia area, please PM me and I can steer you towards the appropriate office where getting a copy is a fairly simple procedure.

Tim

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:36 pm
by Jeffstclair
Hi Tim , do you know if this declaration is for houses only or does it also encompass agricultural land.?..And what is it they want to know ?...I mean when you buy any property the tax office and the legal people and the Notary copy everything...so all the information is already on record ...Did you do yours at the Sitia office on the Irepatra road out of town towards Pisokefalo ?...thanks jeff...

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:56 pm
by Tim
To be honest, Jeff, I don't know. My accountant keeps making appointments with me to do whatever needs to be done, but every time I attend he says the new Land Registry isn't up and running yet. New forecast is early January. What he did say is that I will need my contract (deeds), my topography and the Transcription Certificate as flagged up previously by Mixos. This is the document I've been trying to get a copy of, and the office where you do this is in Sitia town. I believe you're correct that eventually I'll be sent to the Registry office on the Piskokefelo road to do whatever needs to be done, (unless he's going to do it for me). All my accountant has told me is that it's something to do with a reassessment of Objective Values, so I'd have thought that would apply to any property transactions you've made.

Tim

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:59 pm
by altohb
Tim, we have agricultural land, and the same accountant! I've been told to take all the documents to them in early January to check, and then go to the place on the Piskokefalo road. We actually have the "missing" one, as we went to a registry place in Sitia some years ago at the behest, I think, of someone at the agricultural union (not entirely sure about that, though, as it was some time ago).

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:33 pm
by Kilkis
The whole purpose of the registry is to have an accurate record of legal title, Jeff. If you own land, with or without a house you should have a contract from a notary. The registry wants to record who owns what. The local land registry did a partial job by recording the contracts but the new land registry wants to record full details so there is a single source of legal title information. There are massive problems in Greece establishing legal title because they have never had an effective register. Cyprus, on the other hand, I am told has a very effective modern register and you can establish legal title easily and quickly.

Warwick

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:21 pm
by Jeffstclair
I just looked at this ..and it says you can do it on line ..http://www.ktimatologio.gr/Pages/Default.aspx... And the reason I asked about agricultural land 'cos this year we got our little plots here and there re E 9 'nd registered and GPS 'ed ...so this looks like doing the whole thing again but with a different department ...Ho Hum never a dull moment ...why can't they just talk to each other .....

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:16 pm
by Kilkis
The E9 declaration tells the tax office that you own a certain property together with its details. They will use that to issue ENFIA demands for example.

You also need to include the purchase on an E1 declaration for that year together with the price paid. The tax office will use that to decide if you have enough resources for that purchase, either through earnings or through money brought into the country through your bank account. It could also use it to assess if any capital gains tax is owed although that is suspended at the moment.

The land registry is used to determine legal title.

It's not that different from the UK. If you sold a property that was not your primary residence you would need to report the sale to HMRC and you would be assessed for possible capital gains tax. The transfer of ownership would also be recorded with the HM Land Registry. One deals with taxation and one deals with legal title.

Warwick

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:22 am
by altohb
Kilkis wrote:The whole purpose of the registry is to have an accurate record of legal title, Jeff. If you own land, with or without a house you should have a contract from a notary. The registry wants to record who owns what. The local land registry did a partial job by recording the contracts but the new land registry wants to record full details so there is a single source of legal title information. There are massive problems in Greece establishing legal title because they have never had an effective register. Cyprus, on the other hand, I am told has a very effective modern register and you can establish legal title easily and quickly.

Warwick


As a completely irrelevant aside - this type of registration began in the UK in 1925! Only nearly 100 years for Greece to catch up.

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:17 pm
by YoMo2
Just to cheer everybody up. Apparently there is a charge for every property registered, which as Warwick pointed out will be any and all types of property. The amount will be determined based on the details submitted. And of course, your accountant will charge for his time.....

Andrew

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:58 pm
by Kilkis
YoMo2 wrote:...And of course, your accountant will charge for his time.....

Andrew


That does depend a bit on your relationship with your accountant and what exactly he needs to do. Mine tends to charge a fixed annual fee and only charges extra if there is some major extra work to do. I have only been charged extra twice in 12 years, once when he had to do a lot of extra work to extract double taxation agreement forms and once when he had to deal with a refiling of 6 years' returns and a drawn out tax audit.

Warwick

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:35 pm
by YoMo2
Kilkis wrote:
YoMo2 wrote:...And of course, your accountant will charge for his time.....

Andrew


That does depend a bit on your relationship with your accountant and what exactly he needs to do. Mine tends to charge a fixed annual fee and only charges extra if there is some major extra work to do. I have only been charged extra twice in 12 years, once when he had to do a lot of extra work to extract double taxation agreement forms and once when he had to deal with a refiling of 6 years' returns and a drawn out tax audit.

Warwick


You've always been an optimist......

Andrew

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:20 pm
by bobscott
Kilkis wrote:
YoMo2 wrote:...And of course, your accountant will charge for his time.....

Andrew


That does depend a bit on your relationship with your accountant and what exactly he needs to do. Mine tends to charge a fixed annual fee and only charges extra if there is some major extra work to do. I have only been charged extra twice in 12 years, once when he had to do a lot of extra work to extract double taxation agreement forms and once when he had to deal with a refiling of 6 years' returns and a drawn out tax audit.

Warwick


Same here Warwick. Once met accidentally with our accountant whilst in the bureaucratic nightmare of the Chania Tax Office. Having ascertained why we were there, she cut through the system and got the relevant official to fax the stuff to her office, telling us that it was her job to do all that. 'You pay me a fee annually ((€50 and still the same!)) and I work for you all the year!'..Bob.

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:34 pm
by Kilkis
Same arrangement, Bob, unless something really out of the ordinary occurs. Obviously such a commitment cannot be totally open ended.

Warwick

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:39 pm
by Mixos
Only 50 euros a year Bob? You're getting a bargain! Or I'm being fleeced.

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:55 pm
by Kilkis
I pay significantly more than that, Mixos, and I don't think I am being fleeced. You can't just look at the fee. My accountant has saved me far more than he ever charged me so I regard it as good value for money.

The average Greek accountant does charge about €50 per year, some a bit less. Those specifically dealing with international clients and the DTA problems that might imply tend to charge more. You get what you pay for. When I first came to Greece my only income was in Greece from a single source and so it was easy to treat me like any other Greek citizen. I paid about €40 per year and never had a problem. Now I have income in the UK and in Greece my tax affairs are more complex and I want to be absolutely sure that I have an accountant who understands all the ramifications of that. I am prepared more to achieve that. I'm not suggesting Bob's accountant doesn't know but there are many who don't and the problems they create can be serious.

Warwick