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Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:28 am
by davidnc
I just crossed in the post with Andrew !

"The guy at Ktimatologio said it would be corrected in Athens according to the topography. Is that the experience of other land owners or did you try and correct it on their system there and then ??? I wonder how they arrived at the boundaries on ther system ?"

As we're located out in the countryside, before buying the land we got our engineer and a surveyor to check the measurements. A fence had been erected by a neighbour on one side. Before erecting a fence on the other sides (including the one incorrectly marked on the Ktimatologio system), we and the neighbour brought in a surveyor to check again and marked the line before signing the agreement on the boundary. Our plot and the neighbour's had been owned by the same person previously and he had divided it to sell.

I feel a bit uncomfortable having incorrect boundaries on the Ktimatologio system ....

cheers

DC

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:13 am
by Jeffstclair
We have a few plots of land Olive trees , Grapes , vegetable plots etc ...and when we were submitting our details to Ktimatologio there was no option to correct the already marked boundaries on the satellite photographs on the computer at the Ktimatologia office ( which confusingly uses a different
more recent set of photos to the ones on the website) ....so I guess that is a system failure ... but still a million times better than the system we had before which was from that rock over there to that rock here ....The fact is that the folk who own the adjacent plots to ours know the boundaries , they are in their bones they picked the rocks off them for their grandfather when they were six years old..

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:24 am
by davidnc
Thanks Jeff,

Is there a satellite view / map on their website ? If so, I haven't seen that yet

cheers

DC

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:03 pm
by YoMo2
There may well be more than one set of satellite photos on the Ktimatologio system. At least I hope there is. The photos that I accessed on their website were at least 10 years out of date. This may or may not always matter, but it's not terribly reassuring.

Perhaps they have an up to the minute system only they can access?

Andrew

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:07 pm
by YoMo2
davidnc wrote:......I feel a bit uncomfortable having incorrect boundaries on the Ktimatologio system ....


Apparently a property cannot now be sold if it's Land Registry entry is incorrect. (Presumably once the Land Registry declarations are all in?)

Not quite sure how they will know whether or not it's correct.

Andrew

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:28 pm
by Jeffstclair
Well I don't know how it can ever be correct, unless you have people on the ground with GPS ...just wizzing around a plot of land with with a cursor on a computer screen is never gonna be very accurate ...it's always gonna be a few metres out .... don't think that is the purpose of the project tbh....

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:02 pm
by YoMo2
Jeffstclair wrote:Well I don't know how it can ever be correct, unless you have people on the ground with GPS ...just wizzing around a plot of land with with a cursor on a computer screen is never gonna be very accurate ...it's always gonna be a few metres out .... don't think that is the purpose of the project tbh....


Quite right, Jeff. That was my point really. If you have a GPS topo done, at least your registration will tally with what you think your property consists of. At least then you only have to worry about neighbours' overlapping claims!!

To be clear, I'm talking about any topo done over the last few years, (not sure when it became mandatory). These topos have every point on your boundary fixed precisely using proper GPS kit that engineers now all have.

As I understand it, the purpose of a Cadastre is that every property is precisely delineated and fits like a jigsaw with all it's neighbours. Might take some time.......

Andrew

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:05 pm
by Jeffstclair
Yes that works fine for a house, our house and garden topography is correct and it's listed correctly ,but we have a few plots around the village with no buildings and the boundaries are now on record and that data was made from a satellite photo with a cursor, so not very accurate ...I suppose it will increase the land tax revenue ... :?

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:39 am
by YoMo2
Jeffstclair wrote:...I suppose it will increase the land tax revenue ... :?


To be fair, ENFIA is generated from the E9 records, so the Land Registry shouldn't change anything there. Still, they've made a few bob from the registration fees.....

It seems clear that the authorities are just desperate to get any record of a property onto the system for the time being. The words "first pass" spring to mind. No other way to do it I suppose. As long as people realise their declarations are only a claim, to later be reconciled with any competing claims.

Andrew

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:54 am
by Jeffstclair
Yes the ENFIA is generated from an E9 , but many parcels of land and houses are not documented , they have been past on through families for years , so no E9 so no ENFIA. The national land register will make people document their land and therefore make themselves liable for land tax ...Edit thinking about it we were not asked to produce E9's for the house or the agricultural land that we have , I had them in the file but I don't think anyone asked to see 'em ..

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:22 pm
by evansmr1
[quote]Kilkis wrote... I think that this is a link to the pdf application form to which Evansmr1 refers but I could be wrong. It's a bit buried on the web site on this page. Perhaps Evansmr1 could confirm that this is the correct form?/quote]

Takes a while to troll through the document. I sent them an email to the address in the document asking many questions. The responder was very helpful and sent me documents in English, although a little old they were of great help. He also sent me the PDF document (3 pages) that had to be completed. Saved a visit to their Office in Ag.Nik. The Greek instruction leaflet was not very helpful and also confusing.

If anyone wants copies of the Documents that were sent to me (Greek & English) please send me a pm of an email at evansmr1@hotmail.com. I will send them by return

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:00 pm
by GlennB
Most noticeable thing to us was that virtually every Greek in the office was doing multiple registrations - I counted 7 in one case - so it meant a lot of waiting. We were in and around the office for about 4 hours.

One detail that might be important - we legalised our property a while back, requiring a new survey, and took photocopies of both topographic plans and both E9s. It turned out that we needed them.

Also, as our back garden has the village boundary running through it, we had to pay double the fee. In effect they treated our land as two parcels.

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:10 pm
by GlennB
And now I've gone to pay the fees online, but the payment code is 6 groups of 4 numbers, unlike other payments I make. Anybody have a clue which authority I'm supposed to pay? The Ktimatologio is not in the list.

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:20 pm
by evansmr1
And now I've gone to pay the fees online, but the payment code is 6 groups of 4 numbers, unlike other payments I make. Anybody have a clue which authority I'm supposed to pay? The Ktimatologio is not in the list.


Tax and then scroll down for the Cadastre

Re: Property Register declaration

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:54 pm
by Kilkis
Any of you property experts have any idea what happens when your land boundary gets changed through act of god?

Two houses in the next village to me were recently legalised in order for one of them to be sold. As part of the process new topographies were drawn up and it was verified that the build areas were appropriate for the size of the plots. They are in a zone where a 200 sqm house, or two 100 sqm houses can be built on a 2,000 sqm plot. The 2,000 sqm plot has been legally divided in order for the sale to be completed. In the latest storms the river at the end of the gardens has diverted and taken away approximately half of each plot so the build area is no longer appropriate for the size of the new plots. It isn't a question of the river flooding into the gardens so that it will eventually abate and the plots will return to their normal size. Half of each plot is gone and the river now has a new course.

What happens now?

Warwick