rent or buy?

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toastie
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rent or buy?

Postby toastie » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:39 pm

I will never buy a house again in Crete. I own one now but due to the hidden costs when you sell and if you happn to have a mortgage and pay it off. Lots of hidden costs involved which can run into the 1000s
When I come to sell my house, I will just rent because it is easier and less cost.
It seems if you are a foreigner you wil be scammed and ripped off with hidden fees and costs.

filippos
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby filippos » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:22 pm

Things have changed then since we sold our house here. We paid just estate agent's and lawyer's fees. Did you make unauthorised changes to your property that made it illegal? I know several who have done so either through ignorance of the regulations or knew the rules and ignored them. I'd be interested to know what hidden costs manifested themselves. As for paying off a mortgage most banks and other lenders in Europe, including the UK, apply early redemption fees which can be substantial and, usually, the earlier you pay the higher the charges.

Kilkis
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby Kilkis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:24 pm

I tend to agree with Filippos, what hidden costs? When you sell you have to pay any estate agents fees but that is pretty normal everywhere. In Greece the buyer also pays estate agent fees, which certainly isn't normal everywhere, but it doesn't really affect the seller. You pay your lawyer's fees, which is also normal everywhere. It is possible that you have to pay to legalise the property, which certainly isn't normal everywhere but it is, unfortunately, a fact of life that, in Greece, most properties are illegal. Other than that I am not aware of any "hidden" costs?

Warwick

Yin&Yang
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby Yin&Yang » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:36 am

When I sold my house in the UK and thereby ending my mortgage after only eight years, I had to pay a 'penalty' of £5000, which I was aware of at the time of taking out the mortgage, so agree with above, not a hidden cost but an outgoing nonetheless.
Someday is now : )

filippos
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby filippos » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:04 am

toastie wrote:........It seems if you are a foreigner you wil be scammed and ripped off with hidden fees and costs.
If you feel that strongly might you be better going 'home', wherever that is?

toastie
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby toastie » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:15 am

I originally paid my mortgage off last May and its taken them until now to finalise the paperwork and update land registry.

The hidden fees were back in May I paid 90 euros for some paperwork the bank had to pass on to the lawyer, but in actually fact they didnt do it.
Another hidden fee was I appreciate I have to pay for my lawyers, thats not a problem but then to be told I also have to pay for the banks lawyers as well, which are double the cost of my lawyers.

and as for saying I should go home, thats a rediculous comment.

mouche
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby mouche » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:20 am


Kilkis
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby Kilkis » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:14 am

toastie wrote:...The hidden fees were back in May I paid 90 euros for some paperwork the bank had to pass on to the lawyer, but in actually fact they didnt do it.
Another hidden fee was I appreciate I have to pay for my lawyers, thats not a problem but then to be told I also have to pay for the banks lawyers as well, which are double the cost of my lawyers...


So a major decision of whether to rent or buy is based on a fee of €90 that you didn't think you should pay plus another, unspecified amount, for a bank to prepare a legal document. Also these fees are nothing to do with the question of renting or buying but are questions relating to whether to have a mortgage or not. I can think of lots of issues relating to deciding whether to rent or buy that are far more important.

Warwick

Kathleen
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Location: North East UK/ex Rethymnon

Re: rent or buy?

Postby Kathleen » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:18 am

I am now at the final stages of selling my beautiful home on Crete. I was in the fortunate position of buying it as a second home 15 years ago, off plan, as a cash buyer. The costs then were fully explained to me.

I have used it over the years as I wished, never having rented it out, though my nephew and his three boys, as they grew up, have all had wonderful holidays there since they were tiny babies. All perfected their swimming skills in my pool. Since the death of my husband in 2012 I have been lucky enough to spend most of each summer there alone. I have some great neighbours and friends, not all Brits, and have always said I have a better social life there than in UK.

Sadly, age is making me re think the situation along with the increasing costs of maintenance. There is also the worry of anything happening to me and my nephews, who would inherit it, having to sort things out should I myself die. I know of two properties still in limbo after three years because of the legal complexity of getting inheritance matters sorted out. I do not wish my family to suffer a similar nightmare!

Yes there are expenses selling. Agents fees, Notary and Lawyers fees and legalisation which I carried out when the first reviews were announced some years ago and more recently, complications involving plot dimensions caused by my builder. He fortunately paid for the major part of the substantial costs involved and has done for all of the seven properties involved. There are also other minor expenses, which in the event I do not consider to be a problem. My main gripe is the fact I shall have Capital Gains Tax to pay since my main residence remains in UK. This will be a substantial bill! People have said to me perhaps there will be a way around it, however, I am not prepared to take any chances and will declare things fully. I was advised by a neighbour who is an accountant not to take any chances since HMRC now have very sophisticated software. Of course when we were required to obtain tax declarations from HMRC in UK to support our Nil tax situation in Greece they also became aware I have a property outside of UK.

Despite all of this I am not upset. Even after all the costs are paid I have lost nothing over the years of ownership. I will not be out of pocket from an investment point of view. Having kept the house in good order I have found Dutch buyers who have said they will love the place as much as I have in their forthcoming retirement. From a personal point of view I have so many happy memories, and of course sad ones too, to look back on. Naturally I dread the way I will feel when I close my gate for the final time. For me the fact I have been fortunate enough to fulfil a long held dream and spend so much time in a place I loved is priceless.

Kathleen

toastie
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby toastie » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:28 am

I agree Kathleen. Social life here is much better than in Crete. I have more friends here than I do in the UK as well.

I merely posted my opinions on the fees. I didnt quite expect to get my head ripped off with silly replies from people.

I hope it all works out for you Kathleen

Kilkis
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby Kilkis » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:37 pm

Kathleen wrote:...Sadly, age is making me re think the situation...


A couple who live close to me are also in the final stages of relocating back to the UK having lived here over 10 years. The husband commented to me that he thought that Crete was a wonderful place to retire to but not necessarily a wonderful place to grow old in. I can understand the sentiment.

Kathleen wrote:...My main gripe is the fact I shall have Capital Gains Tax to pay since my main residence remains in UK...


I'm surprised that you have made a capital gain? According to the official Bank of Greece property price indices prices today are 20 % to 25 % lower than they were in 2003.

Good luck for the future.

Warwick

bobscott
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby bobscott » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:40 pm

We sold a couple of years ago and there were no charges other than lawyer and estate agent bills. We are subsequently renting and have no intention of returning to the UK unless forced to by the vagaries of Brexit. Life here is good, renting or owning. Bob.
Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

peebee
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Re: rent or buy?

Postby peebee » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:46 pm

Kilkis wrote:I'm surprised that you have made a capital gain? According to the official Bank of Greece property price indices prices today are 20 % to 25 % lower than they were in 2003.

Good luck for the future.

Warwick

If you bought using Sterling at €1.45 to the pound and are selling with the exchange rate at €1.15 to the pound, then that is quite possible

Kilkis
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Location: Near Chania

Re: rent or buy?

Postby Kilkis » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:16 pm

But is there a tax for gains on exchange rates? You buy a property in Greece in Euro. For example, you buy for €100,000 and you sell for €100,000 the capital gain on the property is zero. If you bought at £1 = €1.45 then it cost you approx £69,000 and if you sell when £1 = €1.15 you receive approximately £87,000 so you have certainly won but would it class as a capital gain? I honestly don't know.

In any case, if the property price indices are to be believed what you win on the exchange rate only helps to compensates for the loss on the index. As a real life example, I know that when Scooby relocated to the UK recently, the drop in the exchange rate certainly helped mitigate against the price fall but overall he was still down not up, i.e. measured as £ received against £ originally invested. He came a little bit later than Kathleen but not that much. I know of two other recent sales near me where the same thing applies, hence my original comment.

Warwick

Kathleen
Posts: 447
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 8:46 pm
Location: North East UK/ex Rethymnon

Re: rent or buy?

Postby Kathleen » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:35 pm

That's a good point Warwick! One I had not considered, however, I don't think the Revenue will look at it in the same light though I will certainly look into it. At the time I made the final and largest payment for the house the rate was 1.50€ to the pound. Needless to say I am watching the fluctuating rates with great interest at the present time. Over the last couple of months my selling price has been on a seesaw in terms of the variation between GBP and the Euro. Having paid their full deposit I don't expect my purchasers to make their final payment until mid June so still more uncertainty ahead.

Kathleen


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